What did you do to your Gen 1 today?
...Mark
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,238
Likes: 574
From: Central KY
Yea, we need to know more details on that cable!
I went and visited my truck yesterday...
The tranny guy, is so good and sought after that I am 8th in line and it's been about 3 weeks now. Holidays aren't helping any.
I went and visited my truck yesterday...
The tranny guy, is so good and sought after that I am 8th in line and it's been about 3 weeks now. Holidays aren't helping any.
1st Generation Admin
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,601
Likes: 118
From: Buies Creek, NC
Thanks guys. 
The cables are originally for a 2001 Dodge/Cummins 2500. I've installed said rear-end in the truck and needed to make the things connect to the OEM 1993 stuff at the frame. As received, the cables were too long for my liking.
I cut the end off the new sleeve and shortened the sleeve to fit.
- When I installed the triples on the truck, I also had to remake/relocate the HVAC refrigerant lineset to fit like I wanted. Since I do HVAC&R type work, it was a good investment to get the proper crimping tool and ferules to do so.
Anyhoo, I soldered one of the appropriate size ferules to the PB cable sleeve end. Then simply crimped the thing to the sleeve.
The knot-thing at the end of the actual cable is nothing more than a 1/4" copper tubing cap. I drilled a small hole in the end of the cap and passed the cable through. I then frayed the end of the cable so as to allow the silver-solder to flow to all the individual wires. I filled the cap with regular silver-solder white-paste flux, and flooded the cap with regular 15% silver-solder.
Finally, I cleaned it up with kissing a belt-sander.
The trick is to put the flame in the cup, so as to flow the solder there, and not heat the main cable to the point it looses its strength by being annealed.
There's a bunch of You-Tube videos on folks doing similar with bicycle cables and such using regular plumbers solder. I got the general idea from there.
I like to think I'll be able to stand on the PB pedal and not worry about the thing pulling apart. I don't believe it will.
We'll see.
The cables are originally for a 2001 Dodge/Cummins 2500. I've installed said rear-end in the truck and needed to make the things connect to the OEM 1993 stuff at the frame. As received, the cables were too long for my liking.
I cut the end off the new sleeve and shortened the sleeve to fit.
- When I installed the triples on the truck, I also had to remake/relocate the HVAC refrigerant lineset to fit like I wanted. Since I do HVAC&R type work, it was a good investment to get the proper crimping tool and ferules to do so.
Anyhoo, I soldered one of the appropriate size ferules to the PB cable sleeve end. Then simply crimped the thing to the sleeve.
The knot-thing at the end of the actual cable is nothing more than a 1/4" copper tubing cap. I drilled a small hole in the end of the cap and passed the cable through. I then frayed the end of the cable so as to allow the silver-solder to flow to all the individual wires. I filled the cap with regular silver-solder white-paste flux, and flooded the cap with regular 15% silver-solder.
Finally, I cleaned it up with kissing a belt-sander.
The trick is to put the flame in the cup, so as to flow the solder there, and not heat the main cable to the point it looses its strength by being annealed.
There's a bunch of You-Tube videos on folks doing similar with bicycle cables and such using regular plumbers solder. I got the general idea from there.
I like to think I'll be able to stand on the PB pedal and not worry about the thing pulling apart. I don't believe it will.
We'll see.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,312
Likes: 1,063
From: Commerce, OK
Thanks guys.
The cables are originally for a 2001 Dodge/Cummins 2500. I've installed said rear-end in the truck and needed to make the things connect to the OEM 1993 stuff at the frame. As received, the cables were too long for my liking.
I cut the end off the new sleeve and shortened the sleeve to fit.
- When I installed the triples on the truck, I also had to remake/relocate the HVAC refrigerant lineset to fit like I wanted. Since I do HVAC&R type work, it was a good investment to get the proper crimping tool and ferules to do so.
Anyhoo, I soldered one of the appropriate size ferules to the PB cable sleeve end. Then simply crimped the thing to the sleeve.
The knot-thing at the end of the actual cable is nothing more than a 1/4" copper tubing cap. I drilled a small hole in the end of the cap and passed the cable through. I then frayed the end of the cable so as to allow the silver-solder to flow to all the individual wires. I filled the cap with regular silver-solder white-paste flux, and flooded the cap with regular 15% silver-solder.
Finally, I cleaned it up with kissing a belt-sander.
The trick is to put the flame in the cup, so as to flow the solder there, and not heat the main cable to the point it looses its strength by being annealed.
There's a bunch of You-Tube videos on folks doing similar with bicycle cables and such using regular plumbers solder. I got the general idea from there.
I like to think I'll be able to stand on the PB pedal and not worry about the thing pulling apart. I don't believe it will.
We'll see.
The cables are originally for a 2001 Dodge/Cummins 2500. I've installed said rear-end in the truck and needed to make the things connect to the OEM 1993 stuff at the frame. As received, the cables were too long for my liking.
I cut the end off the new sleeve and shortened the sleeve to fit.
- When I installed the triples on the truck, I also had to remake/relocate the HVAC refrigerant lineset to fit like I wanted. Since I do HVAC&R type work, it was a good investment to get the proper crimping tool and ferules to do so.
Anyhoo, I soldered one of the appropriate size ferules to the PB cable sleeve end. Then simply crimped the thing to the sleeve.
The knot-thing at the end of the actual cable is nothing more than a 1/4" copper tubing cap. I drilled a small hole in the end of the cap and passed the cable through. I then frayed the end of the cable so as to allow the silver-solder to flow to all the individual wires. I filled the cap with regular silver-solder white-paste flux, and flooded the cap with regular 15% silver-solder.
Finally, I cleaned it up with kissing a belt-sander.
The trick is to put the flame in the cup, so as to flow the solder there, and not heat the main cable to the point it looses its strength by being annealed.
There's a bunch of You-Tube videos on folks doing similar with bicycle cables and such using regular plumbers solder. I got the general idea from there.
I like to think I'll be able to stand on the PB pedal and not worry about the thing pulling apart. I don't believe it will.
We'll see.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 6,838
Likes: 1,683
From: Land of the Toxic Avenger
Not sure how much pull out strength that assembly will have, vs a swage type end that mechanically gets crimped on.
Solder and a copper cap seem too soft, but I guess you'll find out when you stomp on that brake lever.
Btw, there are companies that make any brake cable you need, if this one goes south.
Hoping not...
Solder and a copper cap seem too soft, but I guess you'll find out when you stomp on that brake lever.
Btw, there are companies that make any brake cable you need, if this one goes south.
Hoping not...
1st Generation Admin
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,601
Likes: 118
From: Buies Creek, NC
Well . . . .
- I have professionally custom made cables for the EGR disc-brake kit this new stuff is replacing. They won't properly connect to the new calipers. I'm not gonna hack them, they go with that kit For Sale.
- The 2001 cables actually plug right in (99%). It's just I can't properly do anything with the excess length of the new articles. (I didn't realize there'd be this much of a difference).
- Not too long ago, folks made fire by rubbing two sticks together, never mind ready access to swage machines.
The silver-solder is a brazing alloy of approximately 80ish% of Copper, 5ish% Phosphor, and in this case, 15% Silver. With heat, it starts going liquid around 1100ish *F. It has a tensile strength of some 30,000lbs with all the tech fine-print.
The copper cap is nothing more than a container for the liquid braising material.
The cable is substantially frayed inside the cap so as to afford maximum surface area for the filler alloy to bond to.
The flux used is specific to such brazing of dissimilar metals.
I am confident the individual wires of the cable are well bonded to the filler.
- I am not so sure about whether the cable was damaged with the heat required for the brazing (1100 ~ 1600*f). Such damage would be in the annealing (softening) of the metal that makes up the individual wires of the cable. As such the fatigue strength is greatly reduced. The wires will eventually break.
-> That's where swaging shines. No such thermal degradation of the base metal.
Anyhoo, I'm not opposed to having custom cables made, it's just that the pile of stuff I had in front of me evolved into that shown above.
Hope it works as well as it looks.
- I have professionally custom made cables for the EGR disc-brake kit this new stuff is replacing. They won't properly connect to the new calipers. I'm not gonna hack them, they go with that kit For Sale.
- The 2001 cables actually plug right in (99%). It's just I can't properly do anything with the excess length of the new articles. (I didn't realize there'd be this much of a difference).
- Not too long ago, folks made fire by rubbing two sticks together, never mind ready access to swage machines.
The silver-solder is a brazing alloy of approximately 80ish% of Copper, 5ish% Phosphor, and in this case, 15% Silver. With heat, it starts going liquid around 1100ish *F. It has a tensile strength of some 30,000lbs with all the tech fine-print.
The copper cap is nothing more than a container for the liquid braising material.
The cable is substantially frayed inside the cap so as to afford maximum surface area for the filler alloy to bond to.
The flux used is specific to such brazing of dissimilar metals.
I am confident the individual wires of the cable are well bonded to the filler.
- I am not so sure about whether the cable was damaged with the heat required for the brazing (1100 ~ 1600*f). Such damage would be in the annealing (softening) of the metal that makes up the individual wires of the cable. As such the fatigue strength is greatly reduced. The wires will eventually break.
-> That's where swaging shines. No such thermal degradation of the base metal.
Anyhoo, I'm not opposed to having custom cables made, it's just that the pile of stuff I had in front of me evolved into that shown above.
Hope it works as well as it looks.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 6,838
Likes: 1,683
From: Land of the Toxic Avenger
David,
Just to clarify. I'm not saying it will fail. Its just not a conventional way of ending a brake cable end, and I'm looking forwards to for test results as to how it works out.
Btw, tensil strength may actually be higher than you stated, unfortunately no way to test, other than ripping it apart.
Joint strength depends on several factors: clearance between parts, base metal composition, service temperature and joint quality (low voids, good penetration). Joint design will also affect strength.
The bulk tensile strength of silver braze alloys is 40,000-70,000 psi. When brazing copper-based alloys, failure will occur in the copper or brass. For copper this is usually the annealed strength of the copper alloy. When brazing steel or other ferrous metals, joint strength over 70,000 psi can be achieved under the right conditions.
Keep in mind that braze joints are primarily lap type joints, so strength is a combination of tensile and shear. Joint strength is directly influenced by the above mentioned factors. The only way to accurately determine tensile or other values is to test the brazed assembly.
http://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/e...ed-joints.aspx
Just to clarify. I'm not saying it will fail. Its just not a conventional way of ending a brake cable end, and I'm looking forwards to for test results as to how it works out.
Btw, tensil strength may actually be higher than you stated, unfortunately no way to test, other than ripping it apart.
Joint strength depends on several factors: clearance between parts, base metal composition, service temperature and joint quality (low voids, good penetration). Joint design will also affect strength.
The bulk tensile strength of silver braze alloys is 40,000-70,000 psi. When brazing copper-based alloys, failure will occur in the copper or brass. For copper this is usually the annealed strength of the copper alloy. When brazing steel or other ferrous metals, joint strength over 70,000 psi can be achieved under the right conditions.
Keep in mind that braze joints are primarily lap type joints, so strength is a combination of tensile and shear. Joint strength is directly influenced by the above mentioned factors. The only way to accurately determine tensile or other values is to test the brazed assembly.
http://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/e...ed-joints.aspx
1st Generation Admin
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,601
Likes: 118
From: Buies Creek, NC
David,
Just to clarify. I'm not saying it will fail. Its just not a conventional way of ending a brake cable end, and I'm looking forwards to for test results as to how it works out.
Btw, tensil strength may actually be higher than you stated, unfortunately no way to test, other than ripping it apart.
Just to clarify. I'm not saying it will fail. Its just not a conventional way of ending a brake cable end, and I'm looking forwards to for test results as to how it works out.
Btw, tensil strength may actually be higher than you stated, unfortunately no way to test, other than ripping it apart.
Yup, I was being conservative with the numbers. I hope it works. We'll see.
If anything, I've a working prototype of what is needed.
The stupid 9/16" lug nuts are suppose to show up Tuesday. With that, I can put the wheels on, drop it to the ground and finish the little things.
Ready to start driving it again.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,312
Likes: 1,063
From: Commerce, OK
Well . . . .
- I have professionally custom made cables for the EGR disc-brake kit this new stuff is replacing. They won't properly connect to the new calipers. I'm not gonna hack them, they go with that kit For Sale.
- The 2001 cables actually plug right in (99%). It's just I can't properly do anything with the excess length of the new articles. (I didn't realize there'd be this much of a difference).
- Not too long ago, folks made fire by rubbing two sticks together, never mind ready access to swage machines.
The silver-solder is a brazing alloy of approximately 80ish% of Copper, 5ish% Phosphor, and in this case, 15% Silver. With heat, it starts going liquid around 1100ish *F. It has a tensile strength of some 30,000lbs with all the tech fine-print.
The copper cap is nothing more than a container for the liquid braising material.
The cable is substantially frayed inside the cap so as to afford maximum surface area for the filler alloy to bond to.
The flux used is specific to such brazing of dissimilar metals.
I am confident the individual wires of the cable are well bonded to the filler.
- I am not so sure about whether the cable was damaged with the heat required for the brazing (1100 ~ 1600*f). Such damage would be in the annealing (softening) of the metal that makes up the individual wires of the cable. As such the fatigue strength is greatly reduced. The wires will eventually break.
-> That's where swaging shines. No such thermal degradation of the base metal.
Anyhoo, I'm not opposed to having custom cables made, it's just that the pile of stuff I had in front of me evolved into that shown above.
Hope it works as well as it looks.
- I have professionally custom made cables for the EGR disc-brake kit this new stuff is replacing. They won't properly connect to the new calipers. I'm not gonna hack them, they go with that kit For Sale.
- The 2001 cables actually plug right in (99%). It's just I can't properly do anything with the excess length of the new articles. (I didn't realize there'd be this much of a difference).
- Not too long ago, folks made fire by rubbing two sticks together, never mind ready access to swage machines.
The silver-solder is a brazing alloy of approximately 80ish% of Copper, 5ish% Phosphor, and in this case, 15% Silver. With heat, it starts going liquid around 1100ish *F. It has a tensile strength of some 30,000lbs with all the tech fine-print.
The copper cap is nothing more than a container for the liquid braising material.
The cable is substantially frayed inside the cap so as to afford maximum surface area for the filler alloy to bond to.
The flux used is specific to such brazing of dissimilar metals.
I am confident the individual wires of the cable are well bonded to the filler.
- I am not so sure about whether the cable was damaged with the heat required for the brazing (1100 ~ 1600*f). Such damage would be in the annealing (softening) of the metal that makes up the individual wires of the cable. As such the fatigue strength is greatly reduced. The wires will eventually break.
-> That's where swaging shines. No such thermal degradation of the base metal.
Anyhoo, I'm not opposed to having custom cables made, it's just that the pile of stuff I had in front of me evolved into that shown above.
Hope it works as well as it looks.
OK. Well now that you clarify the issue. The silver solder you are using is very much different from the silver solder I use for electronics. Electronic silver solder melts at a much lower temp but has little tensile strength. Your solder is much more like brazing or perhaps better.
Sorry. My bad.
Edwin
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,238
Likes: 574
From: Central KY
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,134
Likes: 139
From: extreem southern ILL
the silver solder we use when we rewind big electric motors you need to have the copper a very bright orange, right at the point of melting 3/4 inch lead wire in half, if it is anywhere like we use it is as strong as a weld.
If it is bonded good I think it will hold until the cable breaks.
If it is bonded good I think it will hold until the cable breaks.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,312
Likes: 1,063
From: Commerce, OK
Relay on charging circuit
I finally got the relay installed in my charging circuit so the Voltage Regulator senses battery voltage at the battery rather than going through the ignition switch. This way the charging voltage at the battery is 14.8 volts and not the 16 volts that burned up my battery. Luckily O'Reilly's replaced the battery for free.
The relay actuates when the ignition is on and then routes battery voltage to the regulator and field coil on the alternator. Tracing the wires down through the harness is a PITA and my back now hurts from stooping over the fenders.
While I was there I had to unplug the wiper motor. Now the wipers don't work. Yes I checked the plug. So fixing the wipers is tomorrows job.
BTW, if anyone uses Ridgid 18volt battery power tools, Home Depot has 2 x 4.0 amp hour batteries for the price of one through 1/7/2018 for $99.00. These are the extra capacity batteries and charge on the same charger.
Edwin
The relay actuates when the ignition is on and then routes battery voltage to the regulator and field coil on the alternator. Tracing the wires down through the harness is a PITA and my back now hurts from stooping over the fenders.
While I was there I had to unplug the wiper motor. Now the wipers don't work. Yes I checked the plug. So fixing the wipers is tomorrows job.
BTW, if anyone uses Ridgid 18volt battery power tools, Home Depot has 2 x 4.0 amp hour batteries for the price of one through 1/7/2018 for $99.00. These are the extra capacity batteries and charge on the same charger.
Edwin
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 691
Likes: 102
From: Winterset, IA
I finally got the relay installed in my charging circuit so the Voltage Regulator senses battery voltage at the battery rather than going through the ignition switch. This way the charging voltage at the battery is 14.8 volts and not the 16 volts that burned up my battery. Luckily O'Reilly's replaced the battery for free.
The relay actuates when the ignition is on and then routes battery voltage to the regulator and field coil on the alternator. Tracing the wires down through the harness is a PITA and my back now hurts from stooping over the fenders.
While I was there I had to unplug the wiper motor. Now the wipers don't work. Yes I checked the plug. So fixing the wipers is tomorrows job.
BTW, if anyone uses Ridgid 18volt battery power tools, Home Depot has 2 x 4.0 amp hour batteries for the price of one through 1/7/2018 for $99.00. These are the extra capacity batteries and charge on the same charger.
Edwin
The relay actuates when the ignition is on and then routes battery voltage to the regulator and field coil on the alternator. Tracing the wires down through the harness is a PITA and my back now hurts from stooping over the fenders.
While I was there I had to unplug the wiper motor. Now the wipers don't work. Yes I checked the plug. So fixing the wipers is tomorrows job.
BTW, if anyone uses Ridgid 18volt battery power tools, Home Depot has 2 x 4.0 amp hour batteries for the price of one through 1/7/2018 for $99.00. These are the extra capacity batteries and charge on the same charger.
Edwin