Losing Power then Stalled
Losing Power then Stalled
96 Dodge Diesel, 176000 miles, Just got the truck, no <br>idea of the maintenance history. On the way to work <br>this morning it started losing power at 65 mph. At the <br>entrance to the plant it stalled, I got it started after <br>three tries. Drove to the parking lot and it died. After <br>3 hrs I went out and it started on the 4th or 5th try. <br>Smoke poured out when it started, then it cleared up. <br><br>Any ideas? I've been reading some of the posts. <br>I guess I'll install a new fuel filter first and put <br>some injector cleaner in. Then what is the deal <br>on the lift pump, is that the same as a fuel pump?<br>Where is the lift pump located on a 96. <br><br>Thanks for any help, I'm just learning bout diesels. <br><br>Bo
Re:Losing Power then Stalled
The lift pump on your 96 is a mechanical pump, not electrical. It's down on the drivers side of the engine just above the starter if I remember right. Just follow the fuel line from the back side of the fuel filter back to the lift pump.
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Re:Losing Power then Stalled
Lift pump known failure item. Mine died young. AC/Delco junk.<br>Also, overflow valve in injec pump outlet. Spring fractures, loses fuel pressure. Been there too ($70 from Cummins). Also check fuel return line for leaks. If not replaced already, guaranteed to leak (cheapo SAE R7 hose from factory rots). Won't cause stalling/low power, but lets fuel run back to tank when engine off. Hard to start after sitting. Possible air leak in inlet side of lift pump from tank, or at preheater/strainer gasket. Possible preheater/strainer clogged (been there), and/or pickup tube/screen in tank partly clogged (from bad/contaminated fuel). The lift pump can get debris from the tank, which can cause sticking check valves in the pump => low fuel pressure (my case, zero psi and stalled engine). I'd replace the fuel filter and cut open the old one for inspection. If really bad, will need to check fuel preheater assembly and maybe tank pickup. Took me most of a day to fix mine. Real fun!!!
<br>Good luck,<br>Scott
<br>Good luck,<br>Scott
Re:Losing Power then Stalled
Thanks for the replies. I changed the fuel filter, cracked <br>the bleed screw, pumped the air out of the line. Engine <br>started and ran perfect for about 2 minutes. Vented and<br>pumped it again, it ran about 5 miles down the road and <br>died. Bled it again, went another 5 miles, ect, ect, <br>finally got it to the ranch. Guess I'll use Shire's <br>troubleshooting post and keep digging. <br>Anybody else got any additional ideas. <br><br>Bo
Re:Losing Power then Stalled
The lift pumps on the '94-'98.5 twelve valve engines aren't prone to failures. The ones on the 24 valve are a problem though. Sounds to me like there is an air leak in the fuel system somewhere. I would begin by replacing the rubber fuel lines since yours is about the right "age" for them to be a problem. If that doesn't take care of it then start checking the rest of the fuel system. Look for loose or leaky fittings and things like that. Mine had the banjo bolt on top of the filter come loose. It didn't quit, but it was kind of hard to start. Check the simple things first.<br>Keep us informed,<br>Tom
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From: Kerrville eastern new mexico, west texas
Re:Losing Power then Stalled
on the bottom of the mechanical pump is a bowl with a screen it may be clogged. Their also is a screen on the bottom of the pick up in the tank it may be clogged. It sounds like their is a clogg in one of the screens and it drops off when it is not running and then it gets sucked up when the motor runs.
Re:Losing Power then Stalled
Thanks for all the feedback, didn't get a chance to <br>troubleshoot it today but you guys have given me <br>a lot of things to check for. I'll let you know what <br>I find. <br><br>Bo
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Re:Losing Power then Stalled
[quote author=MnTom link=board=13;threadid=9379;start=0#90362 date=1042152113]<br>The lift pumps on the '94-'98.5 twelve valve engines aren't prone to failures. {...}<br>[/quote]<br>Sorry, beg to differ. This was common knowledge back a few years ago (on the Dodge bbs/sites). Grit/debris gets into the bore housing and scores the wall => loss of pressure. Also, there are check valves which tend to clog/stick open again causing low pressure. The pump used in the 2nd gen B motors is different from the 1rst gen, which I think used a diaphragm type. You should have 20+ psi at low idle, to 35+ psi at high idle (drops under load of course). Mine was running at 3-5 psi max @ 2000 rpm, dropping to zero under load. The oem pump is AC/Delco, but my replacement from Cummins was Carter. Although a direct bolt in, the outlet threads are offset slightly requiring bending/relocating the steel fuel line. Believe there may be other oem pump suppliers as well. <br>BTW - Mark Chapple @ TST was the first to tell me about this problem (and related COMMON overflow valve failures). TST sells a fuel line adapter to connect a pressure guage for checking your pump (replaces banjo bolt on filter housing). <br>My replacement pump now has over 100K mi on it, but pressure is steadily dropping - so will be due for another soon. Can't be helped as there is NO filter between the pump and tank - only coarse screens in the preheater housing bottom and around the pickup tube in the tank. Note - the preheater is NOT part of the lift pump: It is a separate unit. Mechanical pump failures usually gradually appear, starting as a loss of power and rough idle (overflow valve gives similar symptoms). Attached a couple pics of my dead lift pump for you amusement. Try http://www.dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/fil...filt_clean.htm for more info of prefilter details (or other related items on the page). <br>Good luck! The fuel lines are a pita to get to at the firewall, if you haven't found out already. Especially check the inlet line from the tank, where steel joins rubber. Mine was rotted.<br>-Scott
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Re:Losing Power then Stalled
[quote author=Shire link=board=13;threadid=9379;start=0#90468 <br>
Re:Losing Power then Stalled
IMHO, if bleeding it helps for a while, you probably have an air leak on the suction side. Check the rubber lines over the starter for any slight amount of fuel. A small leak of fuel is a big leak of air on the inlet side.
Also, you might try pressurizing the system with a 12v pump on the fuel filler...block it with rags, and get someone to listen for air leaks.
good luck.
Also, you might try pressurizing the system with a 12v pump on the fuel filler...block it with rags, and get someone to listen for air leaks.
good luck.
Re:Losing Power then Stalled
Shire<br>This is the first time that I have heard of a lift pump failure on a 12 valve. I looked at a lot of bbs about these trucks and I don't recall (good memory just short) a problem with the pumps. I'm not trying to say that you are alone with this problem, it's just that I can't recall any discussion aboyut 12 valve lift pumps. I do know that if it is "man made" it WILL break and/or wear out. I am glad that you posted the pressures so that I can check mine. I have 150k miles on now and to my knowledge the pump is original.<br>Tom
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Re:Losing Power then Stalled
[quote author=MnTom link=board=13;threadid=9379;start=0#90804 date=1042249676]<br>Shire<br>This is the first time that I have heard of a lift pump failure on a 12 valve. I looked at a lot of bbs about these trucks and I don't recall (good memory just short) a problem with the pumps...<br>[/quote]<br>Mark Chapple & Joe Donnelly @ TST, Dave Fritz (dodgeram.org), & the Mitchells @ Enterprise Diesel all told me the same thing when I was having fuel problems (lift pump & overflow valve), but this has been years ago (my truck is a 95). Not saying it was a widespread problem, just happened more than it should. I think the pumps were re-designed at one point, but of course changed to electric in 98.5. The Cummins/Carter pump seems to be better designed IMO. At least haven't heard of any failures of the Carter version, so far. The AC/Delco pump is longer and less rigid. The bore in mine was worn egg-shaped, so obviously something wrong. I was going to replace the pump originally with an electric, but never found a pump w/suitable output pressure, rated for continuous duty w/diesel. Anyhow, IMHO most lift pump failures weren't so much the pump as the reverse-check valves getting stuck open. If you have a fuel pressure gauge it's easy to spot. Just my .02...<br>Regards,<br>Scott
Re:Losing Power then Stalled
Wow, Thanks, Thanks, Thanks, I still haven't had time <br>to work on the truck but when I do I will be well prep'd.<br>I'll just print this thread and troubleshoot away. <br>Too many irons in the fire today, building a Top Gas <br>Harley, but I will be back on the truck in a day or so.<br>I'll update on what I find. Again, thanks for all the help.<br><br>Bo
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Re:Losing Power then Stalled
[quote author=Ryan link=board=13;threadid=9379;start=0#91058 date=1042327071]<br>One more option, friend of mine had this problem, it wound up being a section of rubber fuel line was being sucked shut and starving the engine of fuel.<br>[/quote]<br>Oh, that reminds me - had a related problem: The rubber return line that runs from back of the inj pump, down along firewall rotted from the inside out. Before I knew it, lots of rubber bits & chunks ended up clogging the tank pickup screen. Had to drop tank to clean out. Replaced all the rubber lines while I was at it (fun rating: -10). <br>-Scott
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