Mexstan

Have a serious question for you engine experts but don't know where to post it. Here or 24v or 3rd gen no drivetrain?

As far as I know the letters ISB stands for "Interactive System B". That being the case, just exactly what does this engine interact with? How does it interact? What is the "system" that is mentioned? Could the 12v engines be called system A? Or does the word 'system' in this case have nothing to do with quantity or arrangement of valves?
Thanks.

wannadiesel

"B" is the engine family. The 3.9 and 5.9 are "B" engines, the 8.3 is the "C" engine, and so on up to the ISX. Interactive System just means that the engine is computer controlled and that it can talk to transmission computers for units like the Allisons and the Eaton auto-shifting manuals. Power ratings, max engine RPM, and max vehicle speed can all be controlled based on what gear the trans is in. For example, max speed in the lower gears can be controlled to "encourage" : the driver to shift to high gear quickly for better fuel economy. Also torque in the lower gears can be limited to prevent driveline failure, much like GM is doing with the new D-Max/Allison combo. On the auto-shifting manuals, the computer takes over the throttle control during shifting. The computer backs off the power to unload the gears, shifts the trans to neutral, waits for the engine RPM and trans RPM to match based on gear selected and road speed, then kicks the trans into gear and returns throttle control to the driver. Neat, huh? Vehicle top speed can also be limited. A truck can be geared such that it is capable of doing 90 mph in top gear, but the computer will cut power when vehicle speed reaches 65 mph, for example. This ensures good fuel economy and sane operation. Hope this covers it, sorry it got so long. Got kinda carried away... :

Mexstan

Very interesting. Thanks for the explanation. Makes a lot more sense now.

Haulin_in_Dixie

[quote author=wannadiesel link=board=8;threadid=24099;start=0#msg227510 date=1072060922]
"B" is the engine family. The 3.9 and 5.9 are "B" engines, the 8.3 is the "C" engine, and so on up to the ISX. Interactive System just means that the engine is computer controlled and that it can talk to transmission computers for units like the Allisons and the Eaton auto-shifting manuals. Power ratings, max engine RPM, and max vehicle speed can all be controlled based on what gear the trans is in. For example, max speed in the lower gears can be controlled to "encourage" : the driver to shift to high gear quickly for better fuel economy. Also torque in the lower gears can be limited to prevent driveline failure, much like GM is doing with the new D-Max/Allison combo. On the auto-shifting manuals, the computer takes over the throttle control during shifting. The computer backs off the power to unload the gears, shifts the trans to neutral, waits for the engine RPM and trans RPM to match based on gear selected and road speed, then kicks the trans into gear and returns throttle control to the driver. Neat, huh? Vehicle top speed can also be limited. A truck can be geared such that it is capable of doing 90 mph in top gear, but the computer will cut power when vehicle speed reaches 65 mph, for example. This ensures good fuel economy and sane operation. Hope this covers it, sorry it got so long. Got kinda carried away... :
[/quote]

Might be good to add that the Dodge cannot do a lot of things that the mid-sized engines can do. The Dodge engines have a ECM with fifty leads where the rest of them have 100 lead ECM's.

Dieseldude4x4

I don't know about you fellers but I think in this case, less is better. I kinda like having more control over what my vehicle is doing through input from my right foot (I realize that some people can't do this in a safe manner) and not have it think for me via some computer. That is why I am still very partial to the old 12V's, the only thing they needed juice for was the fuel solenoid. If the whole electrical system fell out on the ground smokin and you had a manual trans, you could take the plunger out, catch it in gear (for those younger in years that don't know what means, PM me and I'll explain) and go on to the house. If the electrical system dies on these newer ones, where it dies is where the tow truck hooks up to you.
There is no stopping progress but how far does it have to go until all you do is get in the car and say take me here and you lay back and read the paper or catch a snooze.
WOW, guess I'm way out in left field here eh?

AlpineRAM

According to what I read the 100 pin ECM offers features like school bus featurre that won't let the driver take off with a door open etc too. This ECM incorporates lots of features the Dodge PCM incorporates now. Don't be fooled into thinking that he Dodge ECM is less complex. It just doesn't drive e.g. the gauges directly, but sends the status info via the can bus over 2 cables for lots of stuff, and reacts to lots of inputs over the can bus that are prepared by the pcm.

Just my 2c

AlpineRAM

apache

Im with you Diesel Dude, less is more, more or less, save the computers for something else.

Apache

Fishcop

Ahhh computers, they are suppose to make things better. The last ship that I was Chief Engineer aboard had a computer controlled propulsion plant and I would swear to King Neptune the thing was posessed!! One night while moored at a pier in New York I was discussing the next days work list with my assistant engineer in the engineering control room, while enjoying a cup of fresh joe, the NO.1 main engine started!! We looked at each other wondering just what had happened then wondered how it had happened. The oiler was in the process of wiping the engine down and it scared him so bad he had to change his drawers. Never did figure out what happened. Never happened again. Another time crusing up the Cheaspeake Bay the entire plant just shut down.....DIW.....a 50 cent fuse caused that! For me, the jury is still out on computers, the're OK for e-mail but maybe not engines.....I agree with DD4x4, I like the manual mode!! ;D

cethane

I can just see it now ... a truck with a variable geometry turbo, with a continuously varible transmission, and cylinder cut-off mechanism at cruise & idle. Then, going to the dealer with a complaint of low power. YIKES. You can't blame the auto manufacters, they're just chasing EPA mandates. But, Less is better.

DPG

wannadiesel:

So...I can get on my '99 ISB/auto (with DTT mods), and stay on the pedal, and the computer will make sure that I don't dump the tranny during shifts?

wannadiesel

I don't know how the Dodge PCM is programmed. It may defuel during shifts, or not. If it does defuel during shifts that would be much easier on the transmission.
However, that's not what I was talking about. What I was referring to is an automated transmission - literally a manual transmission controlled by the computer - not an automatic transmission. The shift lever is replaced by two solenoids - one for front to back movement, one for side to side movement. Shifting is clutchless, accomplished by defueling to unload the gears momentarily, then handing throttle control back to the driver once the shift has been made. Some require the driver to use the clutch to start and stop the vehicle, while others have no clutch pedal. On these, the traditional clutch is replaced by a wet clutch (basically a giant version of the clutch packs found in any automatic trans) which is controlled by the computer. This is done by varying hydraulic pressure to the clutch using a solenoid valve. Shifts are still made without the clutch on these. The "shifter" the driver has is a keypad with "R", "N", "D", and "L" buttons, or a stalk on the steering column that is moved like a traditional automatic shifter for "R", "N", and "D", but pushed and pulled for manual up and down shifting.
The advantages to these transmissions are better fuel economy due to less driveline slippage and lower weight, and better durability. Manual transmissions are darn near bombproof if you don't let the driver operate them. The computer never lugs or over-revs the engine, never grinds the gears, never burns up or dumps the clutch.
I know I didn't answer your question. Hope I didn't put you to sleep.

MCummings

Some '00's and '01's, and all '02's have torque Managment in 1st and 2nd gear. You will find this when trying to launch at teh dragstrip with boost.

Build boost on th eline, and the truck will launch hard, tehn seem to fall on it's face on teh 1-2 shift, then once it hits 3rd te power really comes on.

www.bd-power.com adn look for the RAD.

Merrick

Monty

The ISB used in medium duty applications does have a 100 pin ECM. However. One bulkhead of 50 is considered the "engine ECM" and the other bulkhead with 50 is considered the OEM side of the ECM. The engine side is much the same as ours. But the 50 pin OEM side is where it changes as this is where every other component that needs to see engine data comes into such as the transmission control module for Allison transmissions, as well as the vehicle data module, and the 1939 backbone.

The ISB-E uses alot more sensors to monitor such things as the VGT turbo speed, temp, and psi as well as EGR functions. So, you can imagine what all is being being see by the ECM now. The EGR and VGT turboed engines first started showing up about the first quarter of the year in 03 in RV's equipped with the VGT and EGR.

You do have the option to set up idle speed and shift points using Cummins Insite by going to calibration adjustments. Setting up shift points is very handy in that it allows the tech to diagnose or fine tune the shift points on the WTEC and 1000 and 2000 series Allison trannys. The only time I have had to mess with the shift points is when the engine itself was programmed to be in front of a 2000 series tranny but actually had a WTEC, which will definately do some weird things. It also gives you the option for setting common things like max cruise speed etc. The big Insite software that Cummins uses now, so I have heard, actually lets you change the torque curve of the engine as well as the peak curve of the hp, but Cummins will not distribute Insite with this option to anyone else.

jthorpe

Speaking of electronics, do you guys know if Cummins is coming out with a Road Relay 4 for the new version of engine?

kg4muc

Originally posted by cethane
I can just see it now ... a truck with a variable geometry turbo, with a continuously varible transmission, and cylinder cut-off mechanism at cruise & idle.


Looks like it'happening a little sooner than I wished anyway!
The 04 LLY DuraMaxie is going to the variable nozzle displacement turbo. We'll see how that works when one rolls of the hauler