New 07 and questions
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New 07 and questions
I am new to this site, and have already found some great information.
I bought a new 07 5.9 TCD with a manual trans.
In the owners manual it says avoid "lugging" the engine. Does anyone know what rpm general lugging occurs at? Right now I am shifting around 1800 rpm, and that puts me at around 1000-1100 for the next set of gears.
Am I lugging? How would I tell?
Thanks for the info
I bought a new 07 5.9 TCD with a manual trans.
In the owners manual it says avoid "lugging" the engine. Does anyone know what rpm general lugging occurs at? Right now I am shifting around 1800 rpm, and that puts me at around 1000-1100 for the next set of gears.
Am I lugging? How would I tell?
Thanks for the info
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Joined: Aug 2005
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From: Pottstown, PA
FROGGY,
1st welcome to the DTR. I have an 03 2500, with mine if I slow down to
much and don't push in the cluch..the computer automaticly increase the idle speed so the truck does not lag. I usually shift to next gear at 1400 rpm and
have noticed any lagging. Hope this helps... Injoy the New Truck
Steve
1st welcome to the DTR. I have an 03 2500, with mine if I slow down to
much and don't push in the cluch..the computer automaticly increase the idle speed so the truck does not lag. I usually shift to next gear at 1400 rpm and
have noticed any lagging. Hope this helps... Injoy the New Truck
Steve
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From: Melbourne, Florida
To me lugging the engine would be like towing a fiver in overdrive and dropping under the beginning of the torque curve. I think I lug on mine when towing if I'm running 60mph in 6th. At that speed it's in the curve. To me the best towing RPM is 2200 in 5th. If I had a 4:10 that would be about 64mph in 6th, which is perfect.
Dave
Dave
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From: Auburn, WA
Froggy,
Lugging the engine, meaning putting some throttle to it under 1500-1600 on a Cummins, which is before the torque peaks, will not hurt anything in normal empty driving. If you're hauling or towing heavy, you will notice your EGT's going way up due to a rich condition, alot of fuel and not enough boost to push it through.
If you had an auto trans, it would automatically downshift to keep you in the right rpms. That's why thre's a warning w/ your 6sp.
Lugging the engine, meaning putting some throttle to it under 1500-1600 on a Cummins, which is before the torque peaks, will not hurt anything in normal empty driving. If you're hauling or towing heavy, you will notice your EGT's going way up due to a rich condition, alot of fuel and not enough boost to push it through.
If you had an auto trans, it would automatically downshift to keep you in the right rpms. That's why thre's a warning w/ your 6sp.
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Joined: Jan 2004
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From: Oregon
I asked Cummins Powermaster that question when I got mine.
Their reply said that lugging the engine is operating it with load below 1600 RPM, or operating it in any RPM in a gear where when floored it does not gain speed...
Their reply said that lugging the engine is operating it with load below 1600 RPM, or operating it in any RPM in a gear where when floored it does not gain speed...
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From: Sugar Land, Texas
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From: Winchester, TN
That's the definition of lugging. I'd have to look at the rpms/speeds on my shift points for other gears but when I'm empty, which is most of the time, I always shift into 6th gear at 50mph which is seems to be the peak torque. There's a 6% mountain grade near where I live and pulling that grade empty I can stomp the "gas" pedal in 6th gear @ 50mph and it'll jump up to 75mph in no time. You can tool around empty as slow as 45mph in sixth gear just don't stomp the gas pedal to the floor unless you downshift to fifth. Light acceleration at 45mph in 6th won't lug it though.
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From: Oregon
I did some digging around and found what they sent me, so I'll just paste it in...
In the Dodge application, the rpm of the advertised or maximum rated power of the engine is 2500 rpm (prior to 1996 models), 2600 for 1996 and newer models with 12-valve manual transmission and 2700 rpm for 24-valve. Peak torque is reached at 1600 rpm on all models. The Maximum Full-Load Governed Speed is 2800 rpm for 12 valve and 3200 for the 24-valve. The Maximum No-Load Governed Speed is 2950-to-3300 rpm (3500 for 24-valve).
Therefore, your normal operating range for the engine is between 1600 (peak torque) and rated rpm (2500-to-2700, depending on your model). These engines should not exceed 2800 or 3200 rpm downhill (depending on model year), under load, since that is the governed speed of the engine. At no load (i.e., if you were to push the accelerator to the floor and hold it, sitting still in neutral), the no-load governed rpm is about 10 percent over the full-load governed rpm.
The engine is designed for maximum torque or twisting power at lower RPM (1600 rpm), for hard pulls on long grades. The torque curve of the engine is nearly flat from peak torque (1600 rpm) to rated power (2500-to-2700 rpm), however, torque does drop off slightly near the rated power rpm. Typically, the 'sweet spot' rpm for cruising would be about midway between peak torque and rated engine rpm, however, any rpm between peak torque (1600 rpm) and rated speed is fine and will not harm the engine. Overspeeding above rated speed and lugging the engine under load below peak torque is not recommended.
Also we mention that on downhill operation, the weight of the truck and any load you have on it, or towing, will cause the rpm to exceed governed rpm. Even though the engine is governed while under power, the load can push the engine beyond its rated speed. We would not recommend going too much over the no-load governed rpm or you could cause valve/piston contact, which can cause major engine damage.
Any rpm between peak torque (1600) and full-load governed rpm is acceptable and will not harm the engine. However, if you are concerned about fuel mileage and long engine life, then the lower rpm is recommended. At higher rpm's, the engine uses more fuel and all internal components turn faster and wear out quicker, which will shorten the life of your engine. There is less horsepower and torque at maximum rpm and the only reason to run the engine at maximum rpm would be for higher road speeds.
For the best fuel mileage, Cummins engines should be operated between peak torque and rated speed. Do not lug the engine when running in this RPM range. What is "lugging"? Lugging the engine is when, at cruising speed, the engine is accelerated and it will not increase the vehicle speed. Also, lugging is operating the engine, under full load, below peak torque rpm.
We do not have information about shifting into or out of overdrive in the Dodge application, since Dodge designs and supplies the transmissions for their products.
If your engine is still within the Dodge warranty period or you need information about the Dodge Ram truck, please feel free to use the Dodge dealer locator or contact Dodge: (http://www.4adodge.com/frameset_main.html?dealers/index) on the Dodge website (http://www.4adodge.com/).
We thank you for your interest in Cummins products. Please let us know if you need assistance in locating the nearest Cummins-authorized Dealer or Distributor Service Provider. For assistance in locating a Service Provider, feel free to use Cummins North America Dealer Locator, which can be found on Cummins website:
http://www.cummins.com/service_locator/index.cfm
Please let us know if you have other questions and if away from your computer or have a time-critical request that needs more urgent attention, feel free to call us toll-free (from North America) at 1-800-DIESELS (343-7357). Customers may also call Cummins switchboard 1-812-377-5000 (worldwide toll call) and ask for the "800-DIESELS Call Center" for assistance.
Email direct: powermaster@cummins.com
Therefore, your normal operating range for the engine is between 1600 (peak torque) and rated rpm (2500-to-2700, depending on your model). These engines should not exceed 2800 or 3200 rpm downhill (depending on model year), under load, since that is the governed speed of the engine. At no load (i.e., if you were to push the accelerator to the floor and hold it, sitting still in neutral), the no-load governed rpm is about 10 percent over the full-load governed rpm.
The engine is designed for maximum torque or twisting power at lower RPM (1600 rpm), for hard pulls on long grades. The torque curve of the engine is nearly flat from peak torque (1600 rpm) to rated power (2500-to-2700 rpm), however, torque does drop off slightly near the rated power rpm. Typically, the 'sweet spot' rpm for cruising would be about midway between peak torque and rated engine rpm, however, any rpm between peak torque (1600 rpm) and rated speed is fine and will not harm the engine. Overspeeding above rated speed and lugging the engine under load below peak torque is not recommended.
Also we mention that on downhill operation, the weight of the truck and any load you have on it, or towing, will cause the rpm to exceed governed rpm. Even though the engine is governed while under power, the load can push the engine beyond its rated speed. We would not recommend going too much over the no-load governed rpm or you could cause valve/piston contact, which can cause major engine damage.
Any rpm between peak torque (1600) and full-load governed rpm is acceptable and will not harm the engine. However, if you are concerned about fuel mileage and long engine life, then the lower rpm is recommended. At higher rpm's, the engine uses more fuel and all internal components turn faster and wear out quicker, which will shorten the life of your engine. There is less horsepower and torque at maximum rpm and the only reason to run the engine at maximum rpm would be for higher road speeds.
For the best fuel mileage, Cummins engines should be operated between peak torque and rated speed. Do not lug the engine when running in this RPM range. What is "lugging"? Lugging the engine is when, at cruising speed, the engine is accelerated and it will not increase the vehicle speed. Also, lugging is operating the engine, under full load, below peak torque rpm.
We do not have information about shifting into or out of overdrive in the Dodge application, since Dodge designs and supplies the transmissions for their products.
If your engine is still within the Dodge warranty period or you need information about the Dodge Ram truck, please feel free to use the Dodge dealer locator or contact Dodge: (http://www.4adodge.com/frameset_main.html?dealers/index) on the Dodge website (http://www.4adodge.com/).
We thank you for your interest in Cummins products. Please let us know if you need assistance in locating the nearest Cummins-authorized Dealer or Distributor Service Provider. For assistance in locating a Service Provider, feel free to use Cummins North America Dealer Locator, which can be found on Cummins website:
http://www.cummins.com/service_locator/index.cfm
Please let us know if you have other questions and if away from your computer or have a time-critical request that needs more urgent attention, feel free to call us toll-free (from North America) at 1-800-DIESELS (343-7357). Customers may also call Cummins switchboard 1-812-377-5000 (worldwide toll call) and ask for the "800-DIESELS Call Center" for assistance.
Email direct: powermaster@cummins.com
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From: WY
Don't mean to question "Powermaster" however, when I spec'd my 99 (w/24valve, 6-speed, 3.54 rear end) it was my understanding that the best fuel economy is at 125-150 rpm above peak torque. Which with my truck, running at 1725-1750 rpm should provide the best economy. Thanks for the great site.
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Joined: Jan 2004
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From: Oregon
Yeah, I didn't intend to imply that what they said is the gospel. I had just asked cummins pretty much the same question and I thought I'd put up what they sent back.
With my truck, I've found speed seems to have way more to do with fuel economy than RPM (I get better milage in 5th below 50 mph than I do at 55 in 6th)...
With my truck, I've found speed seems to have way more to do with fuel economy than RPM (I get better milage in 5th below 50 mph than I do at 55 in 6th)...
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Joined: Nov 2005
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From: Golden, Colorado, USA
WOW!
I just dumped my 03 Auto for an 07 Manual.
I'm shifting between 1800 and 2500 -depending on traffic. This is higher than most of you are stating. SO, with an empty truck, are you guys hitting 6th gear by roughly 45 mph?
My 03 was definitely a 3.73. It sure seems like I'm running higher RPMs all the way around than that ever did. (I'm at 2500 doing 80+ in 6th). I did not see 4.10s on my build sheet (and I'm not crawling under yet -but maybe that's what I ended up with).
I just dumped my 03 Auto for an 07 Manual.
I'm shifting between 1800 and 2500 -depending on traffic. This is higher than most of you are stating. SO, with an empty truck, are you guys hitting 6th gear by roughly 45 mph?
My 03 was definitely a 3.73. It sure seems like I'm running higher RPMs all the way around than that ever did. (I'm at 2500 doing 80+ in 6th). I did not see 4.10s on my build sheet (and I'm not crawling under yet -but maybe that's what I ended up with).
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,528
Likes: 16
From: Oregon
The G56 6 speed manual in the current trucks has a lower high gear than the old NV5600 manual (like mine) which in turn has a lower overdrive than the 48RE. I could be mistaken, but I don't think the 4.10 is available with the newer manual, but you will be turning higher RPM's on the freeway...
Anyhow, unless the engine is cold, I generally shift up around 2300 or so, high enough to mostly stay above 1600, but that's just me.
Anyhow, unless the engine is cold, I generally shift up around 2300 or so, high enough to mostly stay above 1600, but that's just me.
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Joined: Nov 2005
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From: Golden, Colorado, USA
That could be: It looks like you are correct, based on their website.
Anyway, thanks -I'm glad to see I'm not the only one waiting to shift. It feels like unless I get on it, I'm not hardly moving at all until I'm just about shifting into 4th (starting at 2nd).
This is probably OK, I needn't be moving faster than 80, really, ever. And (a small) part of the reason I chose this was because I was "admonished" when I brought my 03 in for warranty work and I had 42% idle time. They said less than 20% load = idle, and I would typically cruise around town at less than 1200. I guarantee with this truck, that'll never be the case.
Anyway, thanks -I'm glad to see I'm not the only one waiting to shift. It feels like unless I get on it, I'm not hardly moving at all until I'm just about shifting into 4th (starting at 2nd).
This is probably OK, I needn't be moving faster than 80, really, ever. And (a small) part of the reason I chose this was because I was "admonished" when I brought my 03 in for warranty work and I had 42% idle time. They said less than 20% load = idle, and I would typically cruise around town at less than 1200. I guarantee with this truck, that'll never be the case.
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