qzilla

The Commander is digital gauges and a little more.

You do not need the Commander for the coolest thing ever.

Production depends on beta testing. If all goes well and everyone is happy then we are talking 45-60 days. If we have issues then it depends on how long it takes to fix them.

Bob Wagner

Free rev to 4400 or full fuel to 4400 RPM? There is a big difference

lotero

For this with small or medium sticks, a turbo, and a few other supporting mods, I will outrun anything. No doubt in my mind. This is from experience speaking, not hope.

SOUNDS LIKE ME! waitin on a call...

qzilla

That is sort of a trick questions.

What is full fuel at 4400rpms?? Are you asking will it fuel at 4400rpms like it fuels at 1600 rpms?? No. Only because the VP44 is not capable of moving that amount of fuel at that RPM.

Because the pump is operating 6 injectors from a single solenoid your fueling capabilities slowly decrease as RPM rises. There is no magic trick to full fuel at 4400 rpms if this is what you are talking about. It is just not physically possible.

Now, I can make it fuel well up to 4400rpms. It is no where near how we fuel at 1600 rpms or anything but, I can say that I can fuel harder than Marco can at that RPM level simply because we are tapping the wire and at that point we are making our own stretch and not limited by the VP44 limitations of how long a pulse can be.

Like, I said, I am not out to pick at stuff but, it has been done a long time ago. It is cool to a few people but, most could care less.

Rods

So why are they paying 1400$ for a redline box ?

If your box fuels to 4K down the trac at your selling price then every 24v (hardcore)puller would have your box , probaly knocking the door down but being over the MISS things get blury I guress cause REDLINE was the thing to have around here

qzilla

That is a good question?????

I can do it and the beta testers will get a chance here shortly to confim once again that I can do it!

They might have already bought the Redline and there was no reason to change????

HOHN

Quad-- I was under the impression that there is a 2700rpm defuel built into the ECM software. *THIS* is what I believe Marco is trying to crack.

I'm under the impression that the Drag comp and other boxes pull past 2700 rpm by simply doing the pump stretch to an extreme, in an attempt to offset dwindling pump command as the FPCM shortens the pump past 2700 in obedience to the ECM.

A TST comp will rev well past 2700-- but it's not ELIMINATING the ECM's 2700rpm defuel. It's simply attempting to OVERRIDE it with pump stretch.

So my questions are:
-- is there are 2700rpm defuel programmed into the ECM? I'm under the impression there is.
-- Is there are way to ELIMINATE this defuel without new ECM software? I can't see how. Overriding the defuel by compensating with pump stretch isn't the same-- that's already been done.

The impact on this is significant, imo, because it's the difference between the size of the primary pump pulse and the "second" pulse that a wire tap box brings.

Conceptually, it seems a LOT more efficient in increase the size of the primary pulse as far as possible rather than relying on pump stretch, because of the delayed timing of the stretch.

I'd personally like to know where the duty cycle limitation for the bypass solenoid is: is it programmed into the ECM or hard-coded in the FPCM? I thought it was in the FPCM, and that's why the wire had to be tapped-- to control the solenoid AFTER the FPCM.


Thanks again for answering my ignorant questions. I used to think I knew how a VP worked, but the more I read, the more confused I get...



Justin

qzilla

Wow, I could really go into a lot of detail and get things really confused. I am going to try and start simple and see if it gives you the answer you are looking for.

First, realize that tuning the stock ECM versus plug in or add on type module is 2 totally different animals.

Lets start first by understanding a little about what it is that I do.

The ECM does not control the fueling of these trucks. Yes, it sends a request but, ultimately it is a brain on the VP44 that makes the ultimate fueling decision. This is why it is somewhat difficult to control, or really control via the ECM in software.

What happens is that the ECM is programmed and it sends a request via Can Bus communications over to the brain on the VP44. This is where I come in. I don't really need the ECM to make the truck fuel how I want it to. I do what I want by controlling the VP44 directly. I am not changing, lying, fooling or doing anything to or for the ECM.

Now, we all know that this brain has limitations and has safety shut offs which is why you will not likley ever see any increases over 70hp without going around the brain. We are control this section via the logic level!

Now, I here about this magic, 2700RPM problem but, I am not aware that I have ever had this issue with my products. There are an awful lot of customers on this board that have our products, both wire tapping and now non-wire tapping and none have ever reported a problem or a de-fueling at 2700 rpms.

Maybe I am doing something different? Maybe some other people do not understand fully how it works? I have no idea?

Now, I am not saying power will continually rise from 0-4000 rpms. A lot of that has to do with injectors, available fuel, turbo's, air flow capabilities, camshaft design, valvetrain design etc.

BUT. I don't de-fuel and there is no noticeable decline in power above 2700 rpms.

Now, lets move beyond the limits of the VP44 brain. Lets talk wire tapping.

To properly control the pump directly you do not need to create a 2nd pulse. Yes, it is and has been done that way but, it is not the proper way to do it. This is why many pump tap boxes are still very limited. Yes they work but, only to a point.

The first problem with this is timing. IF you wait for the solenoid to complete a pulse and then pulse it again, you are wasting tons of time. Why not just extend the pulse further without letting it finish and creating a second event? This would save several hundred microseconds which translates into a good amount of fuel.

Here is your answer. So far, other products do not have the hardware, technology and expertise to do this. It takes more than a simple micro processor. It takes more than simple electronics to control a sophisticated pump properly. We are using a 32bit processor at 48 mips. Most are using a 8-bit processor at 8 to 16 mhz and really it is typically only 5 mhz due to limitations of the micro processors. I know that is greek but, that is the difference in 4B and a 6B. Huge difference.

Then on top of that we hired engineers that specialize in solenoid controls in high current applications.

I am not going to tell you the exact secret. I am not going to tell you exactly how we do what we do but, I do it different and I do it right.

Just think, the last wire tap box before me was released what......4, 5 maybe 6 years ago? Technology has changed a great deal in that amount of time. Look at cell phones, pc's, trucks etc. Things are different.

I realized (while developing products for the newer trucks) that we coud do something like this better and more efficiently and the right way. So I did it. I took a risk that the older trucks were still a substantial market and I think I am correct. We are selling insane amounts of product for these model of trucks.

It is not often that you get backordered on a product you released 30 days ago when it was released on time and only advertised approximately 60 days total before release. Applying new technology and new ideas is working for us. I am not copying TST, EDGE or Bluechip. I am doing it better.

Anytime you step out of the box and do something new or innovative you are going to be questioned and I love it, because I can deliver. That means twice as much when you are questioned. Yes we have bold claims, and yes we will have to prove it and we are doing that slowly as we speak.

Let me know if that helps some.

Black04Ram

Wow this sounds very promising for you vp guys... to bad i dont still have my ol 24v

qzilla

Hohn,

Too much info to digest or is there anything I talked about that you don't understand?

I just want to make sure I answer the questions when they are posed to me.

HOHN

Quad, a shiny gold star to you, my friend! I didn't see your post until just now.

Your post makes perfect sense. The processing power allows some great things to be done.

To chase a brief rabbit- this is why new Powerstroke with the Siemens piezo injectors impresses me so much. The computing power on that truck is unreal for an engine. I hear tales of SIX injection pulses available! We're getting closer and closer to real-time "charge shaping".


If you are able to stretch the pump with a single pulse instead of the second pulse, then I *will* buy your box. The second pulse is simply inefficient and loses power.

This is the main reason I went with relatively large injectors and no wire tap on my truck--not just that it's an HO. I was convinced (and still am) that with a quality injector, more power annd lower EGTs would be mine by favoring injector size over adding another fuel pulse.

I could have gone with a TST box or Comp and some 60hp injectors or so. But I can guarantee that peak EGTs with a comp on 5x5 with 60hp sticks are higher than an EZ with ~120hp sticks.

With your box and the Mach 4 injectors, I'm confident that I will be extracting every last drop of useable fuel out of my HO's volume-limited pump.

Thanks for doing this for us 2nd gen guys.

Justin