Shudder- Bill K

A torque converter shudder is a symptom not a cause. You need to find out what is causing the shudder first before you start throwing parts and money at it.

There are several things that can cause TC shudder, injectors, pump timing, and even transmission oil. I would say that about 80 % of the TC shudder I have personally diagnosed have been ATF oil related. I have also seen injectors cause shudder and in the 24 valve cases the fueling boxes & timing combinations have even caused shudder.

When a TC shudders it is a simple case of the damper springs within the TC opening and closing. As they are opening and closing there is not enough hp to keep the springs collapsed and too much power to keep the springs (open) for lack of a better term. If your engine is not running smoothly it can also cause a TC shudder. For assistance with these issues as it applies to your application please feel free to call and discuss in more detail.

OIL

Chrysler recommends ATF +4 oil, whether some of us like to believe it or not they have spent more time and money researching what works best with their transmission than anybody else. They recommend ATF +4 to control the shift feel. Just because they recommend ATF +4 does not mean you have to get it from them, you can buy it from automotive outlets as long as it meets their ATF +4 specifications.

Having said that we work mostly on high performance trucks rams and guys towing pretty heavy loads. In our won personal shop we use Dexron Mercon oil because it’s less likely to slip compared to the atf + 4 that Chrysler recommends.
The reason why Chrysler does not want you to use the GM oil is because it may cause TC shudder.

As far as recommending particular brands, I don’t usually get into to that too much. But from feedback I have gotten from my customers a lot of them run amsoil and are very happy with it. Personally we do use motor oil in our RACECAR TRANSMISSIONS and we are presently testing motor oil in some of our DODGE Diesels. Too soon to comment on the results in the diesels but the racecar really likes it. But then our racecar tranny we service every 4 miles. I don’t think you want to do that. We are working on getting a motor oil sponsor (lol) we are running 30 weight in the car and testing the same in the Dodge.

Our intention is to run the Dodges with the motor oil and then remove the transmissions and examine for wear. This is long term testing and the results won’t be available till towards the end of next year.

While motor oil has been used in transmissions for a long time it has been mostly been tested in the Southern states, i.e. Texas, NM, AZ, etc.

One of the test trucks you guys may recognize is Doug Smith, he has about 8000 miles on it right now and it is looking good. However this is expensive testing on the Dodge rams. The shift pattern is affected; it shifts earlier by about 200 rpms.

We will be doing more intensive field-testing in next month but on dealer personal trucks only. This is something I am not going to recommend one way or another without at least a good year of field-testing. We have been also testing in our racecar this season; the racecar is showing no clutches or gear train wear that includes the aluminum pump assembly.

2 weeks ago we switched the car from the motor oil to Castrol ATF Synthetic,
after 1 weekend of racing with the ATF we lost the high gear clutch pack.
Back to motor oil this week with new high clutches. So for now these are my findings.
Is it cooler to run than ATF? Yes but only by about 10 degrees.

Is it better for the gear train? Yes, motor oil is showing no wear vs. the ATF.

Is the motor oil better for the TC's? Yes, it lowers the stall by about 75 rpms.

HOWEVER, Valve body is where my concerns are stemming, it is changing shift patterns. Again, we are still testing guys, the verdict is still out.

Nathan:
I thought I would share my finding since switching to type "F" ATF. I have about 3.5k on the type F and three times at the track. I have changed very little on my truck since the addition of the new tranny fluid yet my times have gotten quicker every time at the track. The first weekend I ran a best time of 12.50 @ 111mph. The second weekend I ran a best of 12.29 @ 111mph and the third weekend I ran a 12.03 @ 114.5mph. From the first to the second race I lowered my tire pressure considerably and added a slightly larger set of injectors. From the second to the third I changed tires due to a problem with the fronts on my old tires. When I first put the type F in there was very little change in the tranny performance. The more I ran it the more shudder I got. This is most noticeable under lockup and low rpms. It has forced me to manually downshift more and keep the rpm's higher on the upshifts. A small price to pay for the times I have been running I guess but for the average Joe it could become a pain. It also seems to hunt a little around 35-40 mph. I have yet to drain the fluid to see what it looks like but I will in the next couple of weeks and report my findings.

When modifying a Dodge Ram it’s not just the parts you put on the truck that determine how it’s going to work for you.

There are so many lies that are being told to the PCM, and I don’t mean people lying to you, what I mean is that when you modify your truck most people accept the fact that their fuel calculator for one is no longer accurate. (That kind of lying is what I mean) The PCM (power control module) that controls your automatic transmission relies on 3 basic inputs to control the governor solenoid.

1) Tps, the tps basically monitors your throttle position when you are going down the road. Most guys will tell you after they bomb their trucks what used to take them 3/4 throttle now takes them 1/2 throttle to achieve the same vehicle speed output. The more you bomb your truck the greater the differences are,

2)) transmission pressure sensor inside the VB, whether you add a shift kit, VB, or whatever to your transmission which you will have to do to increase the line pressure to keep the clutches inside the transmission from slipping, keep in mind - as you increase the pressures in your transmission the PCM will pick up on that and sense something is wrong and put you into limp mode. Don’t worry about that, there is an easy fix for that, by adding a resistor in line you can fool the PCM into thinking you have stock pressures. Boy that was easy right, $1.00 from Radio Shack and now you have your truck running pretty good, sounds simple enough right?

The only thing now to consider is that every action has a reaction,
see the PCM uses the pressure sensor on the VB as one of the inputs for controlling transmission shift points.

OK, so now we have lied to the TPS, and lied to the pressure sensor, the third input the PCM uses is the vehicle speed sensor. A lot guys tend to put on over sized tires, now your truck is going faster than what your vehicle speed sensor is indicating.

I am not going to proceed to tell you how to bomb your truck only you can decide that. If you are in a rural area not much stop and go traffic, most of this stuff will not affect you too much, however if you do a lot of city driving light throttle, IF NOT SET UP PROPERLY you will be one unhappy customer and the drivability in the city will suck. The guys installing your products and yourself are one of the key factors to having a nice working drivable truck. I realize most of you guys want good performance but I know you also want good drivability and durability and the guy setting up the truck must understand that.

I can’t stress enough how critical the set up is. If you are light foot driver most of the time it is even more critical than a guy that drives around with a heavy foot.
You 12 valve guys same scenario, garbage in = garbage out set up too is a huge factor for you guys.

What about the guys that have surge with the Adrenaline on Level 0

But the issue Quad is addressing has to do with the Adrenaline. I get no surge at 1500 rpm with ADR on PL00, but do get surge with PL01 and PL02.
This scenario is, in theory, not suppose to happen??

EDIT, 10:30 - Tested ADR1000B. Still get surge.
RJ