ooooo ya i forgot about rolling resistance and drive train drag and air resistance on the vehicle body; thanks for reminding me. this conversion has been a long one for me. i haven't had much time. hopefully it will be done by the end of the year or sooner. i will post pic's when it it done.

 

TDI, you know more about the power band of this motor. Is there an auto trans that will work? Is the 4BT/6BT so different? I see them for sale all the time with turbo 400. I know used what your Jeep came with. I'm changing the entire drive train in mine. Banging through the gears can be fun but, stop & go city driving it gets old real fast.
Is there a site online that will give you gear ratios of different trannys?

Thanks
Kirk

 

Thanks, but I think there are others on here that know just as much if not more than me on this engine.

I'll give my opinion and others can add inputs as well. From the dyno data I've taken it shows the mechanical B3.3T can easily modified to make good power to just over 3k rpm (we'll have to see if some of the guys working with the QSB3.3 can get the computer to let them do that as well). That seems to be comparable to the 4BT/6BT's.

I don't see any reason why a turbo 400 wouldn't work well with the 3.3. I would think a quick google search would pull up stats on different trannies you are considering. Good luck with your conversion.

 

NMC Wollard (I think it was one of theirs) uses a Ford C-6 Auto in a baggage transporter. It has the 3.3 in it. I think they do several other aircraft ground support equipment items that the 3.3 & C-6 are options in.

Bob S

 

http://www.peakmechanical.com/ uses a TH400 behind the 110HP QSB3.3T in their mine certified Toyota Tacomas with a http://www.phxgrp.com/transmission.htm adapter.

 

NMC Wollard does use the Ford C6 and I am sure others do, but I think that NMC Woolard has a special version made for their vehicles. Most of thier vehicles are geared to handle the heavy loads and are not ment to travel at highway speeds. My guess would be with same with Peak Mechanical. I had the info on the company that built the tranny for NMC Woolard, so it would be possible to contact them to get the specifics.


Chris
AKA: BigBlue

 

Here's the quote from the NMC Wollard Model 60 brochure:

The axle features double reduction
(ring & pinion) + a
secondary drop box spur
gear set for higher torque at low
ramp speeds.

So I guess the gearing is done through the rear axle and not the transmission as I previously assumed. Would make one hell of a rock crawler

Chris
AKA: BigBlue

 

Thank You everyone!
There is alot of info to go though and deside on. Looks like the torque converter is the only thing to figue out now and where I order that they should be able to give me advice on that.
Here on a couple of sites that have gear ratios I found this weekend

http://www.usgear.com/dr_ratio.htm#ZF%206%20Overdrive
http://www.tciauto.com/Products/Tech...ear_ratios.asp

And from what they show every auto trans has about the same ratio:

1 2.48
2 1.48
3 1.00

 

Have you considered a Jeep Wagoneer? They were made up to around 90 or so. They lack the aerodynamic qualities you seek, but considering you can get them dirt cheap in the long run it might not make too much difference. The frame and axles are pretty robust, perhaps more so than a ZJ.

 

I have considered the 1987-1991 Grand Wagoneer. I really like that bodystyle. When I first began researching a diesel conversion, I was considering a Cummins 4BT / ZF 5 speed in a Dodge Durango then in a Jeep Grand Wagoneer. Ultimately, I chose fuel economy over towing capacity and decided on using the B3.3. The additional weight and less favorable aerodynamics of the Grand Wagoneer would be counter to my goal of 35 MPG in a mid-sized SUV.

I believe that if I had decided on the 4BT conversion, I probably would have chosen the Grand Wagoneer over the Durango primarily because of emissions laws.

With Dana 44's front & rear, the Grand Wagoneer definitely has more robust axles than the Grand Cherokee.

 

I've been lurking for awhile and have read this thread several times threw. Great info, and even better results! Props to TDIwyse, 95Z28A4, 3.3Sonoma et al...

Its kind of funny that the Wagoneer came up in this thread. I have an old Cherokee that I swapped a Chevy Vortec 5.3 into. Gas mileage went from 11 stock to 16, which was a pretty nice improvement, but I want more. Considered doing a 4BT swap, but the prices for an engine were just too much. So I've been acquiring parts to do a GM 6.2L diesel swap. But this B3.3 really has my interest.

As I mentioned, my Cherokee has a 5.3L Vortec, and is backed by a NV3500, and rides on 35" tires. I just regeared the axles last spring with 4.56's. So in 5th @70mph, I'm turning 2200rpm or so. How well will the B3.3 handle this rpm, and how much effect with it have on MPG? I am not looking for 35mpg, 25mpg would more than justify the cost of the swap.

Second, I take my rig offroad several times a year. The one thing that I've been very disappointed in with the 5.3 is idle torque. It stalls too darn easy. I like the creep along offroad, and the 5.3L doesn't do this well. I know diesels in general are torquey at idle, but my TDI Jetta was pretty easy to stall off the line. While the B3.3 is a bigger engine, the Cherokee is a much heavier truck (probably around 4700lbs). How is the idle torque on the B3.3?

Pete

 

Hi Pete / all,

About torque at Idle I have not yet stalled the thing. My girlfriend even has no trouble with clutching the machine. You may not have the same results being that the Cherokee weighs more than a Wrangler.

About the rpm I run stock Wrangler 6cyl driveline on the highway I use mainly 1st 3rd and 5th on the highway to me this way you have more use of the engine’s torque at low rpm. At 60mph I run around 1600 (peak torque) your case will be even more extreme first will be almost useless for highway. But it would be great for crawling.

Take a look at some of the engine data at the rpm you quoted you will be pushing a little over 260 lb-ft and on the downward slope of the graph. These engines love from Idle to around 1600. Even in my case I would like to someday go with a higher geared driveline it makes the power band of this engine more useful.

I have enjoyed a throttle lock aviation cable I have installed it works great off road. I drop her in low lock and set the throttle 1000-1500 and ease around fields.

 

I spoke to Bill with Phoenix Castings today. They are testing 2 prototype adapter sets to mate the Jeep AX15 with the factory 4.0L (AMC pattern) bellhousing to the B3.3T. It will use the 4.0L Jeep flywheel. He said the adapter should be ready for sale at the 1st of next year.

Because this new adapter set uses the Jeep flywheel, you're limited to the Jeep 10.4" clutch. I've decided to stick with my original plan of using the Dakota 3.9L V6 bellhousing and Dakota 5.2L V8 flywheel in order to use a LUK 12" clutch.

As of now, Phoenix does not have a flywheel adapter that works with the Cummins B3.3T short aluminum flywheel housing to the Chrysler/Dodge small block. To adapt to the short aluminum flywheel housing, it is necessary to use their 1.13" spacer with their SAE 4 to Chrysler 727A kit. I believe this is the method used by Macet. After some discussion, Jim agreed to draw out a flywheel adapter for the B3.3T short aluminum flywheel housing to small block Chrysler/Dodge. He said that they do have the adapters for SBC & SBF to the Cummins B3.3T short aluminum flywheel housing. They will contact me Wednesday with a price.

Macet,
Did you use a sealed ball bearing for the transmission pilot bearing? Do you have the part number?

 

I had a bushing machined out of aluminum. This way you use the stock 1” roller bearing. I also chamfered both diameters opposite of each other.

OD 1.81 (+.003)
ID 1.0 (-.003)
.61 thick.. (roughly)

 

Macet,
Thanks for the info.

I received a call from Jim at www.phxgrp.com . The cost of the SAE 10 flywheel / short SAE 4 flywheel housing adapter for the small block Chrysler flywheel is $350. The cost of the SAE 4 flywheel to small block Chrysler bellhousing is $220. The total for the combination is $570........$160 more than the off-the-shelf adapter set for SAE 10 flywheel / long SAE 4 flywheel housing adapter for small block Chrysler. With the new $570 adapter set, the 1.13" spacer is not used. I sent an email purchase order this evening. Delivery time is ~ 4weeks.