Does adding a programmer void the warranty - Page 3 - Dodge Diesel - Diesel Truck Resource Forums

Notices
4th Gen High Performance and Accessories 2010 and Up Talk about Dodge/Cummins aftermarket products for fourth generation trucks here. Can include high-performance mods, or general accessories.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Does adding a programmer void the warranty

Closed Thread

 
 
 
Old 02-07-2012, 01:11 PM
  #31  
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Holly Ridge, N.C.
Posts: 8,247
Thanks: 0
Thanked 37 Times in 37 Posts
Originally Posted by Mike Holmen View Post
John, once upon I time, I said I would never own a CR diesel. I didn't think the the CR 5.9L was reliable as my older truck. I've had good luck with my old truck and its still daily driven, but I also daily drive my 2010 and my mind has changed on the CR issue. 6.7L at near stock power levels are good decent trucks, once you do the delete that EPA stuff.

The stock 4th gen RFE68 are better than the stock re48.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Mike:

The key sentence in your post is; "6.7L at near stock power levels are good decent trucks, once you do the delete.........that EPA stuff."

It is really a shame it has gotten to that don't you think? Dodge/Chrysler installs thousands of dollars of emissions CRAP on these trucks and the owners (like you, Blake and others) have to take it OFF to make it run decent and get halfway decent mileage!! That Sir,.....is EXACTLY what I am trying to say here! And as soon as the OP does a programmer or deletes, the warranty is in BIG trouble! I wish it wasn't like that, but it is. Each member here will have to evaluate their risks on the deletes and programmers on these new Dodge CTD CR 6.7 Pickups.

You mention the comparison of the 5.9 CR Cummins VS the 6.7 CR Cummins.
I don't know about your 5.9 Cummins, CR, 24 valve or 12 valve,.....but my 2006 Dodge CTD CR got 16 MPG IN TOWN right off the showroom floor! You and I both know the new 2012 Dodge CTD CR 6.7's MIGHT get 12-13 in town in stock form. One of my friends was only getting 9-10 with his 2011!

Mike, to add to what you said, I bought my 1996 Dodge CTD new. In stock form I had almost NO PROBLEMS with that truck for well over 200,000 miles!
Even the injectors did well. Good stock, mechanical injectors. As I said, my 2006 had new CR injectors installed @ 100,000 miles. My 2006 CR Injectors fire three times each event. Your 6.7 CR injectors fire FIVE times each event!
I wish you good luck with that Sir! Hang on to your wallet when those go bad too!

As far as the 68RFE VS the 48RE, IMHO,.....ALL of the stock Dodge CTD Transmissions are junk! One of the first things I did on my 2006 was to upgrade my transmission. I had seen that too many times before on my two previous Dodge CTD Trucks. Heck, a TST PM 3 would slip the 48RE on level
(2) two and the 68RFE's are no different. As long as Dodge continues to use the stock TC they have with the low line pressures they will not hold added power and that is a fact!
John_P is offline  
Old 02-07-2012, 04:18 PM
  #32  
Registered User
 
Stargeezer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Pekin, Illinois
Posts: 595
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
John - What do you propose we do? We are learning to shed the EPA crap thats weighing down the front of our trucks.

I have no clue about what to do about the injectors (I am in total agreement with you, but don't know what to do with them. I've never had any experience with Cummins injectors but when I replaced the injectors in my ageing Mercedes in only cost $175 for all 6 rebuilds. These are electric/electronic and computer controlled, they will cost more, no doubt.

Could these not be changed for the more ecconomic and "dependable"? It might require a head replacement, but it just might be cheaper and better - then again, I don't know what I don't know on these.

Learning with every post guys, Thanks!
Stargeezer is offline  
Old 02-07-2012, 04:33 PM
  #33  
The Guru
 
Mike Holmen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Airdrie Canada
Posts: 6,589
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The injector fall out for the 6.7L is better than the old style 5.9CR injector, which is why they have newer style today. Which means we should expect long life span running the 6.7L injector. H&S turns off the emission injector firing event. John my engine oil remains clean to 8000 miles mark.

5.9CR 06/07 seem to melt down very easy, but then again most of us 4th gen 6.7L guys only run one programmer (H&S). Similar mods that apply to the 5.9CR apply to the 6.7L

John, the 4th gen interior, bigger cab size and payload, just sells buddy. Reason #1 I bought a 4th gen. The exhaust brake just works, for those who actually tows trailers.
Mike Holmen is offline  
Old 02-07-2012, 05:01 PM
  #34  
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Holly Ridge, N.C.
Posts: 8,247
Thanks: 0
Thanked 37 Times in 37 Posts
Originally Posted by Stargeezer View Post
John - What do you propose we do? We are learning to shed the EPA crap thats weighing down the front of our trucks.

I have no clue about what to do about the injectors (I am in total agreement with you, but don't know what to do with them. I've never had any experience with Cummins injectors but when I replaced the injectors in my ageing Mercedes in only cost $175 for all 6 rebuilds. These are electric/electronic and computer controlled, they will cost more, no doubt.

Could these not be changed for the more ecconomic and "dependable"? It might require a head replacement, but it just might be cheaper and better - then again, I don't know what I don't know on these.

Learning with every post guys, Thanks!
----------------------------------------
Stargeezer:

Sir, I am not proposing the current owners do anything to their trucks as that will void the warranty as I posted for the person who started this thread. But, as you can see from the other replies here, members are going to do what they want in spite of what Dodge/Chrysler spells out in their written warranties. Like they used to say over on the TDR Forum,......."You are your OWN warranty station!" Some of the new members here
do not realize that if you add a programmer or modify the emissions you are asking for problems.

As far as the CR injectors are concerned IMHO,....they are junk too! If anyone here doubts the "unreliability" of these electronically controlled, three to five event little wonders, call some of the shops that rebuild them like Don Morrison @ "F-1 Injectors" in Texas. He will give you the rundown on what they see every single day on these things! Stargeezer, about all you can do is make sure you are running good quality diesel fuel, that you use the best fuel filters and change them often and hope for the best. I can promise you that it will cost ALOT more than $175.00 to rebuild or buy six (6) of the 2003-2012Dodge CTD CR Bosch 5.9/6.7 Injectors! Depending on where you buy them and if they are "rebuilds" or "new" look for prices between $300.00-$600.00 each! So far, I don't think anyone has come up with an "alternate" CR Injector for the trucks Stargeezer.
John_P is offline  
Old 02-07-2012, 05:44 PM
  #35  
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Holly Ridge, N.C.
Posts: 8,247
Thanks: 0
Thanked 37 Times in 37 Posts
Originally Posted by Mike Holmen View Post
The injector fall out for the 6.7L is better than the old style 5.9CR injector, which is why they have newer style today. Which means we should expect long life span running the 6.7L injector. H&S turns off the emission injector firing event. John my engine oil remains clean to 8000 miles mark.

5.9CR 06/07 seem to melt down very easy, but then again most of us 4th gen 6.7L guys only run one programmer (H&S). Similar mods that apply to the 5.9CR apply to the 6.7L

John, the 4th gen interior, bigger cab size and payload, just sells buddy. Reason #1 I bought a 4th gen. The exhaust brake just works, for those who actually tows trailers.
---------------------------------------
C'mon Mike,......6.7 CR Injectors are NOT any better than the 5.9 Injectors!
Different design,.......... yes,.....better,.....I don't think so!
Long life spans running the 6.7 injector?? I have seen plenty of them replaced under warranty here! Glad your oil is clean. On a close to stock truck it should look good.

Melt downs on 5.9's? Yeah, there have been some, but look at how hard some of the guys are pushing them. I see it every year in the sled pulling and diesel drag racing events. I am sure you have read my posts that I have personally seen two 6.7 blocks completely blown out in front of cylinder #1!
So, don't kid yourself Mike, the 6.7's can come apart too.

Finally,...... you are right, the new 4th Gen's do have nice interiors. But they also are alot higher pricewise model-to-model than ever before. IMHO,....not worth the price for everything else you have to deal with on them.

Like Blake Clark, you and I are just going to have to "agree to disagree."
John_P is offline  
Old 02-07-2012, 09:13 PM
  #36  
The Guru
 
Mike Holmen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Airdrie Canada
Posts: 6,589
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by John_P View Post
---------------------------------------
C'mon Mike,......6.7 CR Injectors are NOT any better than the 5.9 Injectors!
Different design,.......... yes,.....better,.....I don't think so!
Long life spans running the 6.7 injector?? I have seen plenty of them replaced under warranty here! Glad your oil is clean. On a close to stock truck it should look good.

Melt downs on 5.9's? Yeah, there have been some, but look at how hard some of the guys are pushing them. I see it every year in the sled pulling and diesel drag racing events. I am sure you have read my posts that I have personally seen two 6.7 blocks completely blown out in front of cylinder #1!
So, don't kid yourself Mike, the 6.7's can come apart too.

Finally,...... you are right, the new 4th Gen's do have nice interiors. But they also are alot higher pricewise model-to-model than ever before. IMHO,....not worth the price for everything else you have to deal with on them.

Like Blake Clark, you and I are just going to have to "agree to disagree."
I agree with you to disagree, sorry buddy couldn't resist. Good points to the old classic 5.9/6.7 banter don't really agree on all of them but that why we drink beer.

Come on buddy, I know your going to buy one of these fancy 4th gens. I used talked down on the CR stuff for a long time (I'm a mechanical guy deep down, but you are right there are guys making some amazing power numbers out of these little CR cummins engines.

Seen about a half dozen 5.9CR block failures as well. Usually it the rods being liberated that is the source of the block failure.
Mike Holmen is offline  
Old 02-08-2012, 06:28 AM
  #37  
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Holly Ridge, N.C.
Posts: 8,247
Thanks: 0
Thanked 37 Times in 37 Posts
Originally Posted by Mike Holmen View Post
I agree with you to disagree, sorry buddy couldn't resist. Good points to the old classic 5.9/6.7 banter don't really agree on all of them but that why we drink beer.

Come on buddy, I know your going to buy one of these fancy 4th gens. I used talked down on the CR stuff for a long time (I'm a mechanical guy deep down, but you are right there are guys making some amazing power numbers out of these little CR cummins engines.

Seen about a half dozen 5.9CR block failures as well. Usually it the rods being liberated that is the source of the block failure.
----------------------------------------------------
Mike,...this has been a good discussion!

For the record though,.....I will NEVER OWN one of these 4th Gen Dodges
Sir! I don't really care for the front ends on them either and you know how I feel about the rest of it! No Mike, right now my plan is to keep my 1996 and the 2006 for a long time. When the time comes, I will have my good friends at Scheid Diesel just rebuild the CR engine in the 2006 just as they have done for me in the 1996. Glad to hear you are in agreement on how great the old Cummins 5.9 12 valve engines can be.

Thanks for the good debate Mike!
John_P is offline  
Old 02-08-2012, 08:35 AM
  #38  
The Guru
 
Mike Holmen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Airdrie Canada
Posts: 6,589
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hate to say, but to get a new 6.7L to the performance level your at with the older truck is alot easier. The right turbo, EFI tuning, fuel system mods, you could be around 700-800rwhp mark with stock injectors. Way way back in the day, 12V stuff was expensive as well. 12V need more mods to make the same power. 13mm P7100 pumps aren't cheap, more money than new 6.7L injectors. Seen a few P7100 with broken cams and seen tons issues arrise from the injeciton pump breaking free on the injection pump timing gear. I rather install a 6.7L engine, (deleted) than a 12V engine, just more room under the hood. 12V injectors getting stuck open and melting stuff.

I think by the time most of us need injectors the price will alot less than what is currently. I can find used low mileage 6.7L injectors for the same price as a good performance 12V injectors. A few guys up here have 200k-300k miles on a set of injectors, but all it takes is a tank of junk diesel fuel to ruin any one day.

Thanks for the hard core diesel chat buddy.
Mike Holmen is offline  
Old 02-08-2012, 04:04 PM
  #39  
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Holly Ridge, N.C.
Posts: 8,247
Thanks: 0
Thanked 37 Times in 37 Posts
Originally Posted by Mike Holmen View Post
Hate to say, but to get a new 6.7L to the performance level your at with the older truck is alot easier. The right turbo, EFI tuning, fuel system mods, you could be around 700-800rwhp mark with stock injectors. Way way back in the day, 12V stuff was expensive as well. 12V need more mods to make the same power. 13mm P7100 pumps aren't cheap, more money than new 6.7L injectors. Seen a few P7100 with broken cams and seen tons issues arrise from the injeciton pump breaking free on the injection pump timing gear. I rather install a 6.7L engine, (deleted) than a 12V engine, just more room under the hood. 12V injectors getting stuck open and melting stuff.

I think by the time most of us need injectors the price will alot less than what is currently. I can find used low mileage 6.7L injectors for the same price as a good performance 12V injectors. A few guys up here have 200k-300k miles on a set of injectors, but all it takes is a tank of junk diesel fuel to ruin any one day.

Thanks for the hard core diesel chat buddy.
-----------------------------------------------------
Well Mike,... I THOUGHT I would end this on a good note and then you reply with all the Cummins 5.9 12 valve criticism! While I will agree with you that the 5.9 or 6.7 CR Engines are easier to build horespower with for the reasons you stated, you are wrong about the Cummins 5.9 12 valve parts being "expensive." I have been involved in diesel performance for a long time and I don't EVER recall Cummins 12V parts being as high as the components for a similar CR engine. You can buy a FULL set of stock 96-98.5' Cummins 12V injectors for what three (3) CR injectors cost! You mentioned 12V injectors "getting stuck open and melting stuff." WHAT?? I have NEVER seen that happen Sir! And your right, one tank of bad fuel WILL ruin diesel fuel
injectors and they will ruin the CR injectors ALOT faster than a 12V injector and that is a fact!

As far as the P-7100 Bosch Fuel Pumps, yes I am sure there are some that have had problems. I have personally NEVER had ANY problems with mine and my truck has 313,000 miles on it. And Mike, if they are so bad I wonder why it is that they are STILL the #1 choice of all the top sled pulling and Dodge Drag Race Trucks?

I didn't know you hated the 12V engines that much. Good luck with your 6.7!
You'll need it. Now this conversation is over!
John_P is offline  
 
 
 
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
walker
3rd Gen High Performance and Accessories (5.9L Only)
9
06-11-2007 04:23 PM
Gitpik
3rd Gen High Performance and Accessories (5.9L Only)
19
12-14-2006 01:03 PM
Mike M
3rd Gen High Performance and Accessories (5.9L Only)
5
08-02-2006 09:55 AM
Batts
3rd Gen High Performance and Accessories (5.9L Only)
20
09-12-2005 07:39 PM


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Does adding a programmer void the warranty


Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.