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Does adding a programmer void the warranty

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Old 01-31-2012, 10:17 PM
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Does adding a programmer void the warranty

I am hoping for some definitive answers or expierences.
I have read alot of material on-line talking about whether adding a programmer unit like the edge,smarty or bullydog will void a factory warranty. Most language, (including that of the aftermarket programmers) refer to the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act, which state that the warranty cannot be voided unless the dealer can provide written documentation of how the modification directly caused the covered part to break.
But the next thing you read is that alot of dealers state adding such a thing will void it, and even the programmers themselves say to re-set everything to factory specs and pull it out prior to taking the truck in for service. However, the dealer can still tell you had the programmer installed.
Since I am considering adding one ( for fuel mileage increase, not power ), and I am still well within my warranty, I am hoping to hear what is really happening when this pops up...
Thanks.
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Old 01-31-2012, 10:32 PM
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The short and true answer is... YES.

Does not matter why - they assume you are going out mud bogging and racing.

Brother, we are all there. But my mind is made up. Deletes are going on the truck very soon.
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Old 01-31-2012, 11:45 PM
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If you modify factory installed programming software, your warranty will be VOID.
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Old 02-01-2012, 01:11 AM
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Originally Posted by New2Diesel View Post
If you modify factory installed programming software, your warranty will be VOID.
Let's be clear, the installation of a tuner will likely void your warranty. However, items not caused by the tuner like defective parts that are not a part of the driveline should not be affected. It's the driveline and ECM coverage that could be denied. The proof that the tuner didn't cause damage is on you. Since they have attorneys on staff or contract to deal with "law breakers" like us deleters you have an uphill battle at best to prove that the damage wasn't caused by the tuner. If you have a really good dealer on your side and he concludes whatever damage you have was unrelated to a tuner you have a shot at warranty repairs. However, I wouldn't expect much support if you drive in with a blown head gasket and stretched studs.

I figure I'm pretty much my own warranty station. Cummins has a good reputation for building a very reliable motor. The problems mostly come from the emissions stuff that's been added. If I run my tuner on "stock" setting I'm quite confident that I won't need warranty work. I only use the "hotter" settings with a gentle foot to get improved fuel economy. I didn't buy my CTD to drag race.
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Old 02-01-2012, 03:37 AM
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So, what I am hearing in a nutshell, is that it is not worth doing it till the warranty expires. Thanks for your feedback everyone.
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Old 02-01-2012, 05:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Lemer View Post
So, what I am hearing in a nutshell, is that it is not worth doing it till the warranty expires. Thanks for your feedback everyone.
You want real life experience. Here you go.


On my 08 I had a Smarty. Full gauges. Buncha other crap.



Reverse light went out on it. It was the fancy smancy part inside of the tranny that controls the reverse lights.

Went into the dealer where I bought the truck. They knew everything I had done to the truck. Hell, I took em for a ride when I had all the deletes done and the Service Manager and the Diesel tech were pretty impressed. They were aware of all of my mods when I pulled up with this problem and I told them I didnt expect anything to be warrantied.

Long story short, they fixed what was a powertrain issue, and, they warrantied it. They told me that there was no way my mods could have caused the failure.

Here is another story of mine, same truck, same situation.


Patterson Dodge

Point being. If you mod is your warranty void?????


Its very possible.

However, there are still some dealers out there that are willing to work with you. It all depends on the situation and how it plays out.

If you lightly modded then you may stand a chance.

Once Im done with my truck, I wont be expecting much more than a seat motor or A/C condenser to be swapped out.
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Old 02-01-2012, 07:55 AM
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I have more than enough faith in this cummins and the drivetrain that sits behind it, not just from what I read but from past experience, that subtle mods with some extra H.P. and TQ will not give you an issue. Your buying a truck to enjoy or perform work for you. You will enjoy your truck alot more with these mods and get much better miliage if you can keep your foot under control. Those who rely on it to perform work have more of a risk of the cost of failure and take a double hit if the mods created a failure as down time now factors a personal and buisiness loss with no warranty. But, with some subtle mods and common sence your more than likely not gonna have your enginge block or trans flying apart in 10000 pieces. What your deleting is pretty much eliminating what most trucks, regardless of brand, are going to use that ever so valuble powertrain warranty for anyway. However, my point of view is comming from someone who can and will fix his own truck in his own garage/driveway, have what I need to fix it, and enjoys both ends of the spectrum. Power and repairing what the power broke.
For those contemplating over losing there warranty. You will NOT just leave it on stock setting. BELIEVE THAT! You WILL like what the extra power feels like. ALOT! If you cant control yourself, be prepare to set some extra coin aside for repairs.
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Old 02-01-2012, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Lemer View Post
So, what I am hearing in a nutshell, is that it is not worth doing it till the warranty expires. Thanks for your feedback everyone.
That's the safe bet. Like some others have stated, time and money is on their side. It's easy for a dealer to say your mods caused a problem, whether they did or not. Now you have 2 problems, a broke truck that you need fixed and the burden to prove to the dealer and Dodge that it didn't.
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Old 02-01-2012, 09:57 AM
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It depends on how far your dealer wants to go with it....I blew a headgasket a few months ago, and my dealer had no problem with doing warranty work as long as I put it back to stock. As explained to me, Chrysler needs aton to info on the truck including pictures in order to pay the dealer for the warranty claim. I talked with the service manager extensively before I did the deletes (I was there alot for turbo cleanings), said he wouldnt have a issue. Well I guess its a crapshoot, easy honest answer, if you dont want to work on it then dont delete.
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Old 02-03-2012, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Lemer View Post
I am hoping for some definitive answers or expierences.
I have read alot of material on-line talking about whether adding a programmer unit like the edge,smarty or bullydog will void a factory warranty. Most language, (including that of the aftermarket programmers) refer to the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act, which state that the warranty cannot be voided unless the dealer can provide written documentation of how the modification directly caused the covered part to break.But the next thing you read is that alot of dealers state adding such a thing will void it, and even the programmers themselves say to re-set everything to factory specs and pull it out prior to taking the truck in for service. However, the dealer can still tell you had the programmer installed.
Since I am considering adding one ( for fuel mileage increase, not power ), and I am still well within my warranty, I am hoping to hear what is really happening when this pops up...
Thanks.
This IS completely true! BUT, you must be persistant and well educated on just exactly what you're getting into and you still might end up in litigation. These dealers are taking the approach of if they void 10 warranties and eight of the people pay and go away, then it paid off. Also, they are trying to make examples out of some and sending out a message to others...
Example: If you install a tuner and set it on 175hp tune and your tranny goes out, your warranty should be voided on that tranny. If you installed the EXACT SAME tuner and set the tune on stock 0 hp, so that you can run deletes and your tranny gives out; it should be warrantied and I would fight this case until I ran out of money. I've actually been there w/ a very well known Texas Dodge TRUCK dealer and I won a $6122.00 repair case w/o a lawyer. The dealer could not prove the aftermarket modifications caused the engine/injector damage(which honestly was probably caused by their pisspoor factory filtration!). It took weeks, but it was worth the fight.
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Old 02-03-2012, 12:22 PM
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I love hearing THIS stuff! tcr - you rock!
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Old 02-03-2012, 12:31 PM
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I dont know about that! lol I hope I dont have the opportunity to prove anyone right or wrong! I will be leaving my H&S on stock for 100,000 miles for a good reason though
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Old 02-03-2012, 12:33 PM
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All I know is everyone that is having trouble with these trucks around here either are having problems caused by the emission/regen system, which will drive you crazy, or, mess up their transmissions from over doing it after the delete.

I am at 40,000 trouble free miles since delete running my smarty on level II Towing mode.

No problems with the emissions system, and the truck runs great.

If I blow a transmission I will use it as an excuse to upgrade. It is a chance we take, but IMO it is worth it.
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Old 02-03-2012, 02:30 PM
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Just to play around with the calculator here in the truck, I crunched a few numbers. If a person puts 100,000 miles on a truck (the warranty period) and are good little boys and girls and donít delete anything Ė they will use 7442 gallons of fuel based on the all around average of 14mpg which is what Iím seeing from day one.

If they delete (bad boy, bad boy Ė girls can never be bad, just naughty) and run 100,000 miles and get what some claim 19mpg, they will use 5263 gallons of fuel. Saving about 2178 gallons. Around here today, thatís a savings of $8254.62.

If you do minimal deletes and spend $1200, you are still ahead $7 grand Ė Thatís not pocket change for most of us. I hope to ride my truck out to the 200k mark and beyond if the tailpipe inspectors stay out of my *business*. It makes the cost and risks of deleting much more attractive.
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Old 02-03-2012, 02:46 PM
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Stargeezer, That's pretty good and quite realistic. How about calculating in the fines we might get if we never have our trucks inspected yearly. I'd bet we're still ahead , BUT add in the insp fees we're not paying!
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