Stargeezer

No smog tests here in the land of obomahahaha. Yet. That would be the last straw for me and I'd be heading down the road. VERY high taxes, terrible roads (except in Chacigo, in a certain hood), can't carry a gun - I'm almost gone.......

Lemer

I appreciate everyones feedback on this. Without wanting to offend anyone, I was hoping for a definitve answer. What I am realizing is that it is a definate... maybe! Yes in some cases, no in others. Seemed like the best thing to do was talk with my dealer. What the service manager said, was just having one does not void it, but if the repair is caused by it, or if they think it is, there is a good chance chrysler would not go with it. So after talking with the service manager, I have come to the conclusion that it is still a maybe.
He did say that there are alot more of these programmed rigs out there than they are actually seeing, and the ones they do see breaking are the guys that do everything. Lift kits, big tires, exhausts, chips -- the whole nine yards. And his opinion was that it was most likely the guys who drive on the high levels all the time and hammer on it for fun that are breaking things.
So my next question is this... I was planning on just the chip for now for hopefully raising the MPG's. -- (BTW stargeezer -- great work on the math. I had thought of doing it, but was too lazy...) Anyone know what kind of gains just doing the chip will give, or are the deletes a must to get any appreciable gains?
Thnx.

Stargeezer

Lemer - Buddy, I'm just trying to figure this all out too. Numbers help me that way. Some times.

On the definitive maybe, I will affirm that you have achieved the non-answer that leads to confusion, my son. Go thou and "wonder" more.

As for doing the deletes. I'll now utter a few things that may or may not be totally right, but they are as I understand things (now the blind leading the blind) The EGR can be left in place, the programmer can/will turn it off. The DPF can be left in place the programmer allows a certain amount of function of the bad stuff to clean it. If it does not do this the DPF turns into a big plug in the exhaust pipe.

The EGR cooler and associated plumbing is something of a time bomb that may begin leaking coolant into the exhaust and turbo without warning. Coolant spilling into a very hot turbine is a very bad thing, that will be exciting for a very short period of time.

40 years ago a couple buddies and I spent several summers and about every evening for years wrenching around on one of our dad’s race cars. He was a wonderful teacher who took time to explain why we did things. One thing he stressed to us as we labored to grind out every little bump on the inside of the headers he would build - was that in order for any motor to produce as much HP as possible it HAD to have two things. 1. it had to be able to take in as much air as it could properly mix fuel with. 2 If had to have the clearest, straightest path possible to get the exhaust gasses out of the motor. No obstructions at all.

If you have seen busboy's intake pics, you know we have a problem with the intake. A lot of the problem is caused by the EGR system that is poisoning the blood of the motor.

No matter how you look at the exhaust system -from a purely mechanical point of view, it is an abomination. You might as well find a 4" cork and drive it into the tailpipe.

If I was looking to do a bare bones delete, I'd start with a H&S (just pick one), and do the DPF delete. That will take you a long ways. If you keep it on stock settings I understand you’re pretty safe.

I'd sure urge you to do a full exhaust (w/muffler if you like) to get as much breathing room as possible. Get rid of the cat, NOX, DPF in one chunk. Put it up in the garage attic.

The EGR would be the next hurtle to jump. It’s not expensive to do, but it may be the most time consuming single step.

Then I'd pull the intake off and clean the soot all out of it and the grid heater. Unless you are going to replace the intake like I am going to. In which case it goes onto the pile of other stuff you took off.

No promise I got this all right but, I think I’m close. I’m sure Blake and the gang will keep me straight if I stubbed my toe. This is what and why I’m going the route I am. I hope it helps.

Blake Clark

Spot on Lary, except for this. Running a DPF removed (H&S) or ME tune (Smarty) you have to remove the DPF. The DPF can be left in place with the DPF present or Smarty standard tunes, but the mileage gains will not be as great as the deleted tunes.

Lemer

I notice that the edge products are seldom mentioned . . . assuming there is a reason for this??

tcr

Sounds like you at least have an open minded dealer which is great! You do want to do at least a dpf delete if you want the mileage/power gains. I just did the 1st stg egr delete and it honestly takes 15-20mins, the egrdoes leak exhaust even closed.

Stargeezer

See, no perfect score for this boy, I never was the teachers pet type. Teachers headache, yes - stomach ache, most certainly. I even once achived the high status of receiving more swats by the principles paddle than any other 2nd grader.

Then I fell in love with my third grade teacher, who changed my life forever. She taught me how to draw.

Lemer

Hey Blake... I saw on another thread where you might be running or at least used to run with an edge juice tuner. If you do/did, any thoughts? Thats the one I was looking at...
Thanks.

jeff-kc9ftp

I ran an Edge juice w/attitude on my '08. Edge does nothing for deleting the dpf or egr, except clear codes at startup. That gets rid of the CEL for the unplugged EGR valve. You will have to run sims (resistance foolers) in place of the sensors in the exhaust to stop the regens. Even with the sims in place, the truck will still try to regen after so many miles or hours. When it's doing that, it'll run like crap and act weird. I actually had it happen twice on my '08, ended up putting the truck back to stock for a while to get it out of it's funk.

The programmer (h&S or smarty) that actually programs the dpf & egr out work much better. I ran the '08 with the edge and sims for a while until the smarty became available. At that point, the edge just became an expensive set of gauges. On the '11 I went with the edge insight for gauges and XRT pro for programming duties. Kinda wish, now, that I'd just went for the mini-max for everything.

Jeff.

Mike Holmen

My take on the programmer will void your warranty, as a maybe but probably not. Done it for years. Just take the vehicle back STOCK as the day you bought it.

Problem people bring the truck in with the programmer installed, aftermarket turbo(s), aftermarket wheels/lift, aftermarket stereo, and expect the factory warranty coverage.

John_P

Out here where I am at the dealers WILL void your warranty if they see anything that is suspicious like a programmer on the truck. FWIW,......the 2012 Dodge CTD CR 6.7 Trucks now have software in the engines ECM/PCM and related computers that automatically pick up any changes in the engines emission system (removal of DPF, EGR, sensors etc.). The Dodge Technicians I talk with said once the computers sense the removal of those items, a "hard code" is set within the ECM so that only the new Dodge DRB Scanners can pick up those "hard codes" on the removal of any part of the trucks emission system. When that happens, the Dodge Tech has to notify the Dodge Service Manager, who in turn notifies a Dodge Regional Service Rep. who will be coming to check that truck. If they in fact find that the emissions system has been removed or altered in anyway, the warranty on that truck is voided. Dodge is getting TOUGH on these new diesel emissions trucks and it is only going to get worse. I would suggest proceeding with caution and if you cannot afford to replace an entire engine out of YOUR pocket, don't do it!

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John_P

Mike Holmen

John, there really hardly been that many issues with the 4th gen 6.7L like those 3rd gen 5.9L, the benefits outweigh the risks. I never had warranty issue, but then I don't want those dodge idiots ruining my truck. I fix my own stuff. Chances are with a stock truck they would get you on emission repairs (servicing). I run my truck on stock to mild on my 4th gen for two years now, the truck been awesome. Want to throw on a few extra filters as the stock stuff doesn’t clean the fuel enough for me.

The 4th gen truck is awesome, just the EPA stuff isn't. Slightly underpowered.

Stargeezer

I really get the impression that its the guys who go out and rip the highway up that have all the repairs. If you drive like your road racing or if you are off road, bouncing over rocks, or splashing in the mud - there's a price to pay.

For us guys who are driving with the intent of making the truck last, I don't hear of many issues once you get rid of the EPA mandated junk.

I guess I wanted the engine that was on these trucks 4-5 years ago. Strong, good mileage and would outlast the body it was stuck iinto.

Hate to admit it, but thats what I thought I was buying. Sure I knew there were a few things that had changed, there always are, BUT to plug the exhaust and feed the exhaust back into the intake is downright stupid. It works on a gasser, but the exhaust from a diesel is a heck of a lot different than a gas burners.

So I see the addition of the programmer and the deleteing of the stuff the 06' did not have, should get the motor into the form that I wanted. The form that I thought I was buying. For me the adventure starts in a week.

We will see.

John_P

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Mike:

I am really glad to hear that you, Blake, Chris and a few of my other fellow friends and DTR Members here have had good luck with your trucks! And I mean that. But, with that being said I disagree with you about the new 2011-2012 Dodge CTD CR 6.7 Emission Trucks being trouble free! There are MANY issues with these trucks regardless of what kind of issues you guys have had with your trucks. I see it EVERYTIME I go into my dealership Mike.
Here is a short list for you:

1.) Check Engine Lights for all kinds of codes.
2.) Fuel Dilution Problems
3.) EGR/Turbo Issues From Heavy Soot Build-Up
4.) Broken Turbo Shafts From Heavy Soot Build-Up
5.) Transmissions Problems/Issues With 68RFE

There are more, but I think you get the idea. I have many friends down here that are sorry they have bought these trucks. The problems with these 6.7 Cummins Engines are well documented.

Sorry, but I also disagree with you about the Cummins 5.9 CR Engines having as many problems as the 6.7! Do the 5.9's have their issues? Yes, they do!
But with the absence of all the emissions garbage, I do not feel the problems are near as bad. My 2006 has given me pretty good service, but I have had to replace the CR Injectors at about 100,000 miles! As far as you implying that "Dodge would get me on emissions repairs" I don't have to worry about
that as I would NEVER own a 6.7!! Also,....both my 1996 and my 2006 are out of warranty anyway. I also have a great local Dodge Technician who has training with the diesels both from tech school and through Dodge and Cummins. My good friends at Scheid Diesel take very good care of me and my 1996 "race truck." It is really too bad you don't have someone good at your Dodge Dealer. FWIW,.....I also do alot of my own work on the trucks.

I posted in this thread to let the OP know that these warranties on the new 2012 Dodge CTD CR 6.7 Trucks are being watched VERY closely by Chrysler/Dodge! As I said, I am glad you have had good luck with yours, but many have not! The members here need to know both sides of the warranty issue here and it is only going to get tougher in the coming years! Sorry if this has "ruffled your feathers!"

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John_P

Mike Holmen

John, once upon I time, I said I would never own a CR diesel. I didn't think the the CR 5.9L was reliable as my older truck. I've had good luck with my old truck and its still daily driven, but I also daily drive my 2010 and my mind has changed on the CR issue. 6.7L at near stock power levels are good decent trucks, once you do the delete that EPA stuff.

The stock 4th gen RFE68 are better than the stock re48.