Reacher

Hello all, first post. My 1/2 ton ford is nearing the end of it's life. I've been a fan of the Dodge 3/4 ton trucks with the cummins for a while now and am considering moving up. I work in construction and occasionally carry heavy loads in the bed or on a trailer. I've managed with the 1/2 ton for 7 years now but about 3-4 times a year it's a PITA not having the extra capacity, both payload and towing. I'm going 8 foot bed for sure with the extended cab, 4wd, probably an ST package. I would also like to one day own a slide in truck camper that I will use with this truck while towing a small boat
Question one: There are sweet deals right now on the 2012 models still left on lot. The dealer is telling me that I WANT a 2012 because of the lower cost of ownership being that it does not require the Diesel exhaust fluid but the new 2013 will require the DEF. I had not heard this until I visited the dealer. Is this true? For those of you reading this who have owned other brands where you had to add DEF is it a pain? Does it get expensive? I countered to the dealer, yes more fluid to add in 2013 model but they have made them more fuel efficient, or so I've read. Is this true?
I think I'll love owning one of these fine trucks but my big decision now is to go '12 or '13.
Question 2: Fuel efficiency is the other big concern I have of course. My ford 1/2 ton is averaging 16.5 where I drive. I put in about 100 miles a day. This same dealer is swearing to me that after the break in period I can be sure to expect 20-24 mpg! Is this true for any of you all out there driving similar late models in flat areas? Seems high, anyone want to report their real world, non modified, numbers for an average driver who tends to ease the truck up and down to speed as opposed to flooring it.
Thanks in advance for all your help.

Busboy

Hello and welcome to DTR. First and fore most check the payload on the single rear wheel trucks, as you already mentioned payload I suspect you want to try to do things legally. The Cummins engine weighs so much that the payload is next to nothing I would like to bet your F150 can carry more payload than a 2012 2500 Crew cab 4X4 srw long box, (you can't get an extended cab in a 2500/3500). The payload has changed with the 2013's though. Second your dealer is lying to you about the fuel mileage stock it is not even close to 20 -24 MPG. Everyone's MPG differs depending on how they drive, where the drive, what they haul and what kind of fuel they burn. deleted is a different story altogether. The 2013's again are supposed to be better on fuel because they added DEF to cut down on the Regens.

Hoss

He's lying. I get 12.5 - 13 mpg with everyday driving and 18 at best if I set my cruise on 65 mph on nice flat ground. That's running empty. I've heard some 4th Gen owners claiming 18-20 mpg average. Those people must drive very differently from me. I haven't heard ANYONE claim 20-24.

P.S. Check my sig. I have the same truck you want and those are the numbers I'm getting.

P.S.S. Welcome to DTR!!

Crabjoe

LOL... That dealer is lying!! If you haven't looked already, DEF is cheap. Walmart usually has it for under $13 for 2.5 gallons and that will take you thousands of miles. If you have a truck stop around, check there too. Most now sell from a bulk pump for under $3 a gallon.

Like the Ford SD, the '13 Rams have the DEF fill next to the fuel filler, so it should be easy and the odds are, you won't be doing it often.

Ram claims the '13 will have the lowest cost of ownership of any of the current heavy duty pickups, with up to 15,000 mile oil change intervals and a 10% increase in fuel mileage compared to the '12 Ram HD.

They're lying again.. My old '04 Cummins Ram got 22mph on the highway. 4gen Ram owners only dream of MPG like that. Most seem to report about 17 mpg hwy, once the motor is broken in.

There's a few '13 2500s in consumer hands.. The reports I've seen are that they are getting 17 mpg (mixed city/highway) on a tight motor and are extremely happy with it. Some are even reporting their lie-o-meter show 22+mpg on the highway at 75-80 mph at times...

Me, I looked at all reports and even read Ford and GM forums about SCR (DEF) usage vs In-cylinder EGR. Everything points to getting better MPG and longer oil change intervals with DEF. Because of this, I ordered a 2013 3500 SRW.

As for hauling a camper around, my suggestion for you to get a 3500. The price difference is almost nothing, when equipped the same, as the 2500, but the payload jumps! Plus, the '13 3500 comes with a new 3 link radius arm front suspension and a 50KSI frame.

BTW, if you plan on hauling a in bed camper, do NOT get the snow plow prep package. For whatever reason, Ram doesn't recommend any 4x4 Ram with it, to use a in bed camper.

Reacher

Wow, thank you all for all the great info. I guess I'm leaning towards waiting for more '13s to become available. I like the idea of jumping up to the 3500 to gain payload. My question on that is while driving unloaded, will it feel like a super rough ride? My biggest observation while driving many 3/4 ton trucks over the last few weeks is that they make the 1/2 tons feel like cadillacs! I guess the auto makers have spent a lot of time making the 1/2 ton models more appealing to the daily driver? makes sense I guess and the rougher ride is definitely not a deal breaker for me.
Here's my next big question. With all due respect to all on this forum, I don't like the idea of modifying my truck. With that being said, I don't know a lot about the terms used on this site. After reading a lot of posts on here I'm starting to put an idea in my head of what a "delete" is but could really use an explanation. I have no idea what "regens" are/is and could use an explanation on that as well.
I really want to drive my new truck off the lot, do the scheduled maintenance, make my repairs as necessary(hopefully minimal) and work it for 300k miles. Is this possible? To be honest, to hear about all the work you all do to your trucks,(mods) it's discouraging to a guy like me who just wants to work and drive a stock truck.
Also, Crabjoe, can you tell me more about the new 3 link radius arm front suspension and the 50KSI frame? What's this going to do for the truck?
As the title says "New Guy" I'm trying to wrap my mind around all this info. Thanks for your help and patience!

NCPADiesel

Don't sweat DEF...my Ford uses a 2.5 gallon jug every 3,000-4,000 miles it's easy to deal with and Walmart/Sams has been the most consistent place to get it at a reasonable price.

I can't wait to hear how people are getting along with the new 2013s...might have to make a change again.

Crabjoe

1st, let me say I don't plan on modifying my new '13 truck. If I do anything, it'll be getting 35" tires and 4.10 gears. If I would gotten a '12, I would have been looking to delete...

On the ride, no one really knows how the new 3500 will ride. In the past, unloaded was almost identical to the 2500. Ram says the new 3500 suspension was designed for better empty ride and handle higher payloads..

Regens are a process of cleaning out the Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF). If the exhaust temps are high enough, it'll do a what they call a passive cleaning. If you do a lot of short trips or idle alot, it'll need active regens to clean out the DPF. With active regens, the engine dumps diesel fuel into the exhaust to burn out the soot accumulation, in the DPF.

When EGR is used for NOx emissions, the engine isn't allowed to really get up to temp. The lower temp causes more soot production, causing more regens... This is going to waste your fuel. SCR (DEF) is an after treatment. This allows the engine to run hotter, allowing for less soot production, which causes less soot production, which reduces the # of regens; giving you better fuel mileage.

I can't really explain the radius arm suspension, but I can tell you that people pay BIG BUCKS to convert their 5 link setup over to it now.. My hope, with the new front suspension, on the 3500, is that it reduces the odds of getting the death wobble. BTW, take a look at this ALLPAR link.. It'll give you some info on the changes ... Hopefully, it'll explain what you're looking for and not cause more questions..

http://www.allpar.com/trucks/ram/201...y-pickups.html

Busboy

You don't say where you are located but if it gets cold, don't get a manual transmission, other than I'm suspect of the G56 now, the stock clutch can barely handle it's own weight and the engine is DE-rated because of this, there is no hi/fast idle, the DPF tends to plug more on the manual. If you do go with a 2012 auto and live in the cold then buy a code reader so you can read your codes without having to run to the dealer each time. Most people didn't WANT to delete their trucks and lose their warranty, they HAD to because the trucks will not operate under conditions the Dodge truck previously has normally operated under. We are going to replace the 2011 G56 with a 2013 Aisin, if it ever gets built, and hope the DEF will do what it is supposed to do.

As I previously mentioned payload, my 3500 SRW Crew cab short box 4X4 only has a usable load of about 2100lbs after fuel, 2 people, a few tools and hitch, that's not enough for most slide in campers.

2mtrucks

Also...how cold does it get and stay where you live? DEF freezes at 12 degrees. What is Dodge doing that keep this from being a problem? I can tell you that its been a problem with GM and Ford in very cold environments.

Crabjoe

Ram allows the DEF to freeze. They have a way to heat it to thaw. They say it will run normal, even if frozen...

jbritvar

Just delete that crap system and get a programmer to void the codes.

Grit Dog

Payload wise, of course the 3500 will haul more with no mods, but a 2500 with Timbrens or airbags will do the same or more. IMO don't let that be a deciding factor if looking for leftover '12's. Find the truck you like and for a couple hundo you can beef up the rear end.
As far as busboys claim that the 2500 will have less paylod than the F150 after acounting for the Cummins' weight, this couldn't be more false.
I've had every model of F150 since the 90's (company trucks) and the payload cpacity of the newer gen F150s, 04 and up is PATHETIC compared to a 2500 anything. Not bagging on the truck, just stating fact.
4th Gen 2500/3500's ride is very compliant, IMO. Yes it's a big truck, yes it will ride firm, but keep the tires aired to your needs, like 50-55lbs front, 45lbs rear, empty and go up from there with load and it will not ride like a buckboard.

'12 vs '13 model?
How much do you want to spend?
'13s have a bunch of improvements that make the truck heavier duty er, if that's a word! As if the "old" 4th Gens weren't getting the job done! Not a deciding factor, at all in your case.
With a '12 auto trans you get a factory 800 ft/lb engine. Really need 850 ftlbs?
DPF with more re-gens vs urea injection?
I'd put the money in the bank saved on a left over '12 before paying more for the latest and greatest '13. I have a 5.9 but know plenty of people with 08-10 6.7's auto and stick that have NO issues with the engien or emissions and still get decent highway mileage (16-17mpg). 20+ mpg in a non deleted 6.7 is a pipe dream, dealer is FOS there.

Busboy

2009 f150 5.4 reg cab long box 4X4 1910lbs payload and for the f150 HD 5.4 it's 2700lbs. My 2011 3500 SRW CC4X4 SB supposedly has 2860lbs payload but I know that with fuel and two people a few tools and class 5 hitch and B&W companion I have 2100lbs left. I compared a reg cab ford because that's what the OP has now. The 2011 2500 CC 4X4 sb is 2230lbs payload. Either way these figure pale in comparison to the 2013 3500 numbers.