abc4yew

Hey Folks,
I took in the beast to get a couple of warranty TSBs looked after and the service manager asked if I would like to demo a Bullydog Torque Dog Adjustable for a couple of days. Giving my head a shake to stir some of the caffeine loose, I say ahhhh sure. A couple of hours later I'm TSB free and micro switched for power. The service tech has me plug in the Diagnostic Unit and insists we go for a ride to make sure all is well with the new found power.
I never thought a dually could be made to run this fast. With tech in tow we do some WOT runs at each setting from 0 to 75 mph. The grin factor was uncontrollable. The rear tires are just on the edge of braking loose with no brake standing. The shifting is now how it should be, no gaps between shifts and 7 rpm changes (power shifts) I'm still demo'in it until friday. Tonight I hauled the 20' dump trailer with about 10k on (15k total). The mileage change via the trip computer which is usually accurate within .1 or .2 of calculated is showing 22 to 23 MPG empty where yesterday it was 16.6 to 17.5 MPG.
Towing the same trailer yesterday over the same course I got 9.6 MPG, today 12.4 mpg. Same fuel, same 100 mile loop. Is the box friggin with the fuel computer to throw this display off?
A lot less shifts needed, less slams into lower gears. I'm impressed.
When the service tech was with me the 0 setting (some boost fooling?) the boost at WOT OD was 38.9 psi. With the box on high it dropped to an indicated 33.7 psi. (Seems high compared to what I've read here.
The timing is definitely way advanced with this box...it sounds almost 2nd gen and thankfully seems like it might have the mileage to boot. The filter minder is still pulled to the max....a 4 inch hole and plumbers crack are in my immediate future. Tomorrow I'm going to go over a bad bump on the way to the muffler shop and see if my muffler goes MIA. Power is addictive.
While Bullydog may not be the most potent of the fueling boxes, to me it seems like a viable solution that will hopefully keep the EGT's manageable. While at the dealer I ordered the SRT 10 A piller pod ($50 cdn) and am looking for a EGT and Trans Temp combo that matches the guages. Ideas? Let the games begin! K.S.

gullydog

where are u in canada???

abc4yew

Yep, I'm in Atlantic Canada. Clean cool fresh air to fill with diesel fumes. K.S.

Ram04

I would also like to know if this mileage improvement is for real. If I can get a box that gives me better mileage without too much stress on the ol' 48re , I will do it.

zzsdad

I think my dealer wants to void my warranty for asking about a box .

CTDinMT

Don't get too excited about the mileage. Lots of folk report losing 2 mpg but the overhead comp shows just the opposite. You'll need to hand calculate the mileage when running a box.-Steve

doug

abc4yew , you are experiencing the joy off power enhancement! These boxes are amazing, to be sure. Anyway, some red flags poped up and/or I didn't quite understand a few things in your post, so pls permit a few comments/questions:

1. Just an observation, but I expect a dually running empty to have notiably less traction than a SRW. Thus, if a box breaks the tires loose on a dually it may not do so on a SRW. But thats a long discussion in its own right and I dont' want to drift into that right now...

2. Mileage on the overhead computer cannot be trusted when you add fuel with a performance box. The overhead does not measure actual fuel delivery -- it is calibrated with some assumptions in mind so when you add a box, the truck is getting substantially more fuel than the overhead thinks. The more you get on it, the better the overhead will look, because the more fuel you are sneaking into the engine without the overhead knowing about it.

3. 38 lbs of boost! holy smokes, you must have a boost elbow in there or a stock turbocharger that has the wastegate adjusted out of factory spec. and without additional fuel from the box, you're not going to outrun the stock wastegate -- most guys with the stock wastegate are below 30 lbs, even with additional fuel. At 38 lbs, the stock turbocharger is well past its efficiency map, and is probably throwing hot air at the engine. That could be an EGT problem.

4. The Bullydog adjustable torque dog is not a timing box. It adjusts fuel pressure only. Bullydog pulled their timing/pressure box off the market because it was setting codes. highly unlikely your dealer has one of these, but you can check for sure by looking at how the box connects. if it connects only to a couple of easy-to-reach connectors on the drivers side of the top of the engine, then its a pressure box, and no timing. If, however, there are four connectors instead of two (the other two connect to crank and cam sensors, the later of this is difficult to reach) then you have the timing box.

5. I'd be worried about a significant change in sound with the pressure box -- if, of course you in fact have the pressure box and not the Bullydog timing box. If a pressure box is very aggressive, however, the idle behavior will not be a smooth, and WOT runs could stress the high pressure fuel system, causing the injectors to knock.

6. mileage may improve with a pressure box, but the improvement will only be noticable via the hand calculation method and will probably be 1-2 mpg depending on your driving style and the prevailing conditions. It takes a few tanks to establish such an improvement.

7. Bullydog is among the more aggressive pressure boxes out there. If anything I would expect additional / different engine noises to be a result of very high fuel pressure. Pls confirm whether or not you have the experimental timing/pressure box or just the production adjustable torque dog, which is pressure only. What sounds bothersome is the fact that your engine sounds substantially differnet with the box on.

8. Any of the pressure boxes out there probably will require a miminum of two upgrades to keep EGTs managable, at least when towing: air intake and muffler (if not full 4" exhaust). Even while running empty, a pressure box has the capability to acheive dangerously high EGTs on the stock truck, depending on where you live (elevation) how long your foot was on the floor, etc. It is not a good idea to run WOT with a fueling box without an EGT gauge. If you stayed under 75 mph, running empty, and backed off of it, you may be ok, but in general its just not wise to do that without knowing where your pre-turbo EGT numbers are. For example, I found that with a pressure box similar to the Bullydog I had to back off at 70 MPH. I could not acheive 75 mph and stay below 1300 degrees pre-turbo. I was doing WOT runs from 50 mph, and backing of at 70. I live at 2700 ft, which is a disadvantage in that regard, but the point is you were flirting with dangerous EGTs and flying blind. Be careful!

9. Check out Westach for combination gauges. they seem to be the only ones playing in that sandbox. It will match the factory white face nicely during the day, but not as well at night. As for the gauge that matches the factory gagues the best, Diprocols seem to get the nod (the trick is to match both the daytime white face and the nighttime black face with back-lit numbers and markings) Hoever, guys are using ISSPros and Autometers as well.

10. What is the "diagnostic unit" is this a dealer device that connects to the OBD-II port under the steering wheel? I'm just curious as to how you were able to measure 38 lbs of boost from the ECM. I'd expect the ECM to de-fuel by that point. and with the Bullydog on high, it should boost fool the ECM such that you shouldn't read more than 25 or 30 lbs. There must be something I'm missing here!

abc4yew

Doug, Thanks for taking the time to bring up some good queries. I just got back to the home office and thought I'd better catch up. I'm just on my first full tank of fuel now to determine the actual mpg, as I figured with the computer being fooled then the computer calculated mpg would be off, I hope in a predictable manner. Driveability is so enhanced, less time in 2nd and 3rd to hold speed, remember this is a gutless SO, that I would expect a significant increase due to "normal" my driving style. (Very normal with cdn dsl at about $2 us a us gal.
The boost figures were on an OBD 2 port programming device. Mechanic was able to change most electronically programable functions. With the Bully Dog the Boost did indicate a drop as stated. The last time before the box was plugged in at all the diagnostic unit indicated 34 to 36 psi of boost.
I'm looking at a digital spa with egt and trans temp, the temps that need watching for driveline protection. Expensive, yes, 21st century technology yes. I figured with SO I would have a little higher headroom until I maxed out EGT's. I'm also at sea level, and its still cool here 40 to 60 degrees F. I'm looking at a BHAF that was spec'd for a marine 475 hp cummins. I need a 6 to 4 inch adapter that the Cummins dealer is providing. Has anyone found a higher efficiency intercooler, or an intercooler with a thermostat and cooling coil that hooks in the ac circuit. That part of the air flow seems very restrictive. I haven't even popped the hood to check on the connections. I was told that it adjusted timing and fuel pressure by the tech. When we took the test drive he was looking to ensure that under WOT that the unit was not causing these parameters to exceed DC's specs.
The engine definitely sounds different at the flip of a switch. While this box may not directly adjust timing, the sound is definitely like timing is advanced, but this may be that higher pressure gives fuel earlier and faster thus actual timing of fuel volume in the pilot and main event may be earlier than expected by the rest of the system. As far as what seems to be a higher boost than the norm....wouldn't this act to cool the air charge provided the volume was ahead of the compressive temperature gain. Isn't the governing equation P1V1/T1= P2v2/t2. Only my EGT gauge will tell the truth. WOT is not where I spend a lot of time. I'm hauling 15 to 20 k on a regular basis and am pretty good at babying it up to speed. The throttle foot ultimately still controls the power and temperature. Towing I haven't had it over 75 for sure unless it was a downhill run. Empty well....., stock 108 seemed to be the flatland max. With the box you just get to the max faster. Without the gauges I didn't want to push the max. K.S.

doug

huh. I'd want to know what these "DC specs" are! His OBD-2 diagnostics device is more powerful than straight OBD-2. Whats interesting to me is that the Bullydog boost fools, which means the OBD-2 port is reading the bullydog boost signal and not the real boost signal. I'm not understanding something about this, but it sure has my interest.

The ECM adjusts timing in response to the bullydog's pressure fooling, so by definition it will be within DC specs -- Bullydog sends a boost signal that is within specs, so the ECM responds within spec. higher pressure itself doesn't mean advanced timing like on the earlier diesels -- the injector itself is controlled by the ECM not by pop-off pressure as in the 2nd gens.

yea, higher boost would act to cool things, but at those pressures, the stock turbo is not giving free pressure -- it is outside of its efficiency map which means the increased pressure is just hot air and dimminishing returns. That aside, there is something seriously wacko with my ability to reconcile this number with (1) the stock wastegate, which is set to about 26 lbs, and (2) the bullydog boost fooling, which lies to the computer (and anything that reads boost via OBD-2) and makes the computer think that Manifold Absolute Pressure is below a certain point. I can read Manifold Absolute Pressure with my OBD-2 scanner and my 2004 is capped at about 75 inches of mercury, which is well under 25 lbs of boost.

Maybe the stock SO has a differnet wastegate behavior. those are very high figures for a stock truck though. they just don't make sense to me yet. a 250 HP SO making 38 lbs of boost bone stock? wo baby. somethings not right

now if you told me that you were driving a 2004.5 with the 600, it would make better sense, except for the fact the the Bullydog would probably set an engine code becaue the ECM doesn't like to be pressure fooled

yes, if you could cool the air intake better that would help too. But the energy requried to perform that cooling has to come from the fuel burned in the engine, so its not clear to me that this would be a net benefit -- energy conversion is always lossy

No, the overhead computer is not off in a predictable manner. the more you get on it, the more fuel you are sneeking past it. So you could learn to correlate it with your own foot I suppose.