Thanks, TMan. I know you're probably hurting from being sick, and providing this info is huge, and I appreciate it. Man I miss driving my Dodge. I gotta say, the old dodge got really sick this time....wheel bearings, ATF leaks, King Pins( can't really count that as that was a subject of opportunity while I was there, but costly, regardless) and now the transmission.

I am looking at a company called transpartswarehouse.com to buy a seal kit. Having never seen past the purple color of a mounted torque converter, how hard would it be to change out the pump seal/ bushing seal. I call both of those out because I am ignorant as to what type of seal is behind the TC. Is it a slide the TC off, drain it, yank out the seal and replace, refill the TC with new fluid and slide back on kind of thing? Sure wish BC847 would assist, since he is the only one I know factually who has been inside of this thing when he rebuilt his tranny.
TMan, anything complicated with the bushing replacements? Straight forward R & R?
Can't remember as I was on the meds heavily when you did your flexplate...LOL....you had no clearance issues with that SFI flexplate you chose, correct? Also, I see there is a round ring that mounts along with the flexplate; is that at the Tourque converter side or the engine side of the flexplate, when remounted?

 

I rebuilt my 727 from my 68 Chrysler wagon last year. Same basic transmission, just no OD unit off the back end. So I have rebuilt one of these, and it works great now.

The seals are a bit more involved. The front pump seal, then one the torque converter input shaft rides along, can be removed from the outside, and the new seal installed by tapping carefully around the outside edge, or using a long piece of PVC pipe to slide over the input shaft so you can tap it squarely into place.

The shifter lever bushing is a bit more work. You will need to remove the valve body completely, or you can loosen it and leave it hanging by the park rod...then spin it out of the way so you can get at the seal. Use a screwdriver to punch the seal up and out from the underside. Once the seal is out make sure to clean the area really well. Then I put the seal in place, and use a large C-clamp, and some pieces of wood, or sockets and washers to allow me to tighten the clamp and press the seal into place....that is if your doing it while the tranny is still in place. On the shop floor you would just tap it into the bore.

The rear seal off the tailshaft...would probably be a lot like the front pump seal...but never done one on a 4wd OD unit.

 

Thanks, TMan.

, how hard would it be to change out the pump seal/ bushing seal. I call both of those out because I am ignorant as to what type of seal is behind the TC. Is it a slide the TC off, drain it, yank out the seal and replace, refill the TC with new fluid and slide back on kind of thing? Sure wish BC847 would assist, since he is the only one I know factually who has been inside of this thing when he rebuilt his tranny.

Pretty much what you said. It's a lipped oil seal and if you're replacing the TC, then you should change it. I never pulled my TC, so I left well enough alone. The seal is pictured in David's thread, I believe.

TMan, anything complicated with the bushing replacements? Straight forward R & R?

Cut the bushing out, press in the new ones. It's difficult to install the pins from one linkage part into the pressed in bushing. I used a small socket to prevent the new bushings from tearing apart, as what I experienced with the black factory ones. NOS can be brittle from sitting so long, so I removed the ones I was able to get in, and replaced them all with the green ones.

Can't remember as I was on the meds heavily when you did your flexplate...LOL....you had no clearance issues with that SFI flexplate you chose, correct? Also, I see there is a round ring that mounts along with the flexplate; is that at the Tourque converter side or the engine side of the flexplate, when remounted?

Zero issues fitting it. The round reinforcement ring goes in between the flexplate and the TC. The bolts through the plate, through the flexplate into the crank.

The attached files show the crank bolts to be set at 55 ft lbs, but I went 101 as they are the same size bolts as the manual transmission bolts, which are just longer, which require 101. You have to decide if 55 ft lbs or 101 is your own decision. The thicker SFI plate had no issue with the higher rated torque. The last attachment shows the part numbers, and diagrams of what you need to know.

IIRC, you've done this once already, so it should be a no brainer, eh ?

 

I have done it...and having checked all my maintenance log notes just this evening, it was back in 2008. Just didn't mess with any seals and such transmission related.
Maybe I'm being overly cautious, because after researching YouTube and diesel sites the reasons why the ATF would leak from behind the TC at the seals is if the hub was spinning non concentric, which is probably what it is doing now with the shattered FP. But, there is the chance that once I button it all back up, it may leak if I don't attend to it. A vendor told me it may also be the pump seal, which is a little more involved cause you have to pull the pump out of the tranny. I think I may just change out the hub seal and replace the seals on the shift lever and sensor and call it good.
By the way, from the looks of things, back on the front axle, the gear oil seemed to stop leaking out of the axle. Thanks for the assistance on that

 

I have seen only 2 thrust bearing failures and both were on the earlier multi piece thrust bearings. Both were manual trans trucks. I have fixed and replaced well over a dozen cracked out flex plates most of which where the original first gen plates. There are three different styles of the oem 1st gen flex plates that I have ran across. I don't beleive they ever actually improved them when they were updated. I would lean highly on a bad plate versus anything else.
Once had a torque converter that made a very similar noise and still worked but had let loose internally. One other possibility I would guess.

 

Deercountry- thanks for the reassuring reply on ruling out the possibility of the thrust bearing going out. Since you have changed out more FP than I have, I am curious to know if you suffered also from an ATF leak accompanying a shredded FP. I'm starting to wonder if the TC not spinning true and wobbling at the hub seal would cause it too leak. I'm trying to rule out items to avoid doing unnecessary work, like disrupting the TC by pulling it out

 

Not quite the same, but I had something similar happen. I had a half ton 97 dodge I had bought used. 80k on it. A week after purchase the automatic tranny went out. Dealer put in a new one. After I got it back I was hearing this awful ratcheting noise. Took it back. Service manager went for a ride and told me that they all sound like that. So I took my truck home and started looking closer myself. Dropped the oil pan and found that by putting a screw driver against a crank main and prying lightly the crank would slip fore n aft. Noise was the crank walking back and allowing flywheel bolts to fun on tq converter. Service manager came to my house, looked, ate some crow and I got a new motor. Not long after that I got a cummins and haven't looked back

 

Here is a pic of one that was just about to let go. I honestly can't beleive it didn't if you look at it closely. But to answer your question yes I have had them ruin the tranny pump but I beleive it could have been prevented if the truck hadn't been driven as many miles as it was after hearing the noise it made. If your plate turns out bad and you didn't run it for any length of time I wouldn't worry about it, replace the seal and run it. That's easier to say when it's your own truck and not one your working on for someone else.

I once pulled a tranny out because it had lost reverse and soon realized the flex plate was bad in it. I had driven the truck and it gave no warning signs of being ready to come loose. Sometimes they sound bad enough to make you beleive the engine has a knock in it and sometimes they are just noticeable.

I would open it up and look things over closely, if nothing looks suspect I wouldn't be afraid to put it back together with a new plate.

 

Have my wife take it to town. She'll sort out the bad parts in a jiffy.

 

Deer Country- good pic. I am not hesitant on dropping the tranny to replace the FP...what troubles me is getting into the tranny to replace seals. Typically, when I decide to tackle something I've never done before, I do a ton of reading and ask questions on the subject. My wife has asked me " how do you know how to do all this stuff?" In all the tasks I've done thru out our married life, and my reply has been " I read a lot, and I've already went thru all the individual tasks to complete the big task in my head, over and over, numerous times. The FP replacement, I'm reaching into the memory cobwebs as I've done this already once. My goal in life (part of my bucket list) is to rebuild a cummins and a A518. But, due to my work lifestyle, I am not ready to tackle the tranny, yet. I hate jumping into the unknown. I see the bolts that hold the pump in behind the TC, but don't know what will happen when I pull on it. I don't have a lot of time, as I'm limited to one day a week on weekends for this kind of stuff, and every move has to count. I'm tempted to say screw it and just replace the FP and bolt it back up, but experience in life has told me, along with my luck, I'll have that ATF leak coming from the rear or front of the pump seal. So, FP, no problem. Tranny seals, diving into unknown waters for me.
For those of you that mounted the PDR flexplate, was there a big difference in quality when compared to a stock flexplate? Thicker? I really would like a DTT billet FP, but having trouble finding the $$ to get it right now.
Called Cummins up to get new hardware and rear main seal while I have the tranny dropped....man, prices have gone up. I spent $2 a bolt for the FP bolts back in 2008. Now they are $4/ bolt! Rear main seal was $35 back then, now $72!!! For a seal!!! I can find non cummins rear main seals at different vendors, but, like I said about my luck, probably should stick with Cummins parts.
Anyway, someone sell me on that PDR FP, cause I do not want to do this again!

 

Good day, Big Ragu:

I might have some good news for you, Pure Diesel Power sells the Cummins rear main seal for less than 20 bucks. (doesn't include the install tool) I have a couple of the cheap install tool rings they charge a lot for but also I have one of the reusable nylon install kits that quad 4x4 charges an arm and a leg for as well.

Dodge Cummins Rear Main Seal 3970548

 

i only read the first couple replies.

The crank thrust bearing is certainly a possibility.

The OE one back then was a crap 2 piece design that fails often. It doesn't always fall out though. I've taken 2-3 motor apart and none of the 2 piece bearings had actuall had the thrust portion fall out of where it's supposed to be, but in every instance when I removed the crank, the bearing fell apart in my hand.

It is an easy fix if nothing else has been damaged. I say easy relatively of course. In a first gen you have to take the motor mounts off and lift the motoras high as possible to get the pan off I think.

Just buy a set of new bearings (like $70 online) and roll them in one at a time. Be sure to use some assembly lube. You will need a new pan gasket and perhaps a new oil pickup tube gasket if you remove the pickup tube. You can get a new mahle oil pan gasket from pure diesel power for like $16.

If it were me and I had to go that far, I would probably do the rear main at the same time. Of course that means removing the trans and shoving it back or taking it out completely though, but you may need to do that anyways to check what's going on around that flex plate/tq converter