sdmuleman

I've got a 93 W350 with a gas 5.9 that's I'm looking to swap to a Cummins. I've got a complete matching 93 Cummins truck for parts, so I should have most of it covered but I do have a bunch of questions to hopefully work out here....

I've done quite a bit of work with Ford idi diesels including rebuilds and custom work but this is the first 5.9 I've been into, so I've got the general knowledge and tools but I know there's lots of specific stuff I'm missing.

The doner truck has about 150k miles indicated and came out of Massachusetts or Vermont. It was taken out of service due to rust and seems to be mechanically in good condition, but I know nothing of it's history nor have I done anything other than idle it around. It starts right up and seems to run well, however I was never able to put it under any real load or get above 1st/R (one spring hanger has rusted through and the rest, and frame aren't far behind)

This truck is going to be mainly for my wife to drive - not going to be a hot rod, and not pulling anything too crazy. Reliability is the most important factor, and I'd like to improve the performance some while I'm at it. Goal would be to comfortably and easily tow a 10k trailer in mountainous terrain.

Questions:
-What would you do to the engine while it's out? No obvious problems, but I'd rather be proactive while it's easy to work on. I'm planning to do the KDP fix and the normal hoses/water pump/belts, etc etc but what else? Any common problems that should be fixed? On the Ford's the oil cooler o-rings fail, do these engines have anything similar?

I had thought about doing a full rebuild and may still, but I'm on the fence. I have the tools and ability to do so and am willing to put the money into it, but I don't want to unless it makes sense in part because I don't have that much free time. My currently thought it to pull the pan and check/replace bearings and pull the head to check bores and probably do a quick valve job.

-Reasonable/cheap performance upgrades? I'm thinking of putting a HX35 on for the better spool time and low end boost, what are your thoughts? I recall at one point there being a Banks intake elbow kit that sounded worthwhile, is it?

Any cam upgrades that are worth doing? On the Fords there a nice cam swap that helps with low end torque, so I figured I ask.

Is there a standard fuel pump adjustment to match a turbo upgrade? On the Ford's it's a simple matter of turning the fuel limit screw up ~1/6 turn, but the VE pump is a bit more complex to adjust. I'm familiar with the VE pumps, just not sure exactly what adjustments to make and how far to go. Obviously going to have a pyro installed.

-Any decent priced good quality pump/injector suppliers? Again, not going for super power or name brand hype.

-What's the best place to get a radiator? Are there all aluminum ones? On the Fords alot of folks are having good luck with aluminum replacements, not sure if there's something similar for these.

-I'm planning to rebuild the trans (46RH) since I know that's a common failure point. One of the threads I saw referenced a ATSG manual download on Scribd but the link is broke. Is this still out there somewhere? I have the factory manual but it sounded like that was an easier to follow manual.

Any special tools required for the trans?

From what I've seen on here you can add lockup if you change the trans pump & nose housing, use a lockup valve body and a lockup converter. Anything else?

Can you use the lockup valve/solenoid from a lockup gas 46RH trans to backfit lockup to the 46RH valve body? I expect the shift points are different so you can't just swap valve bodies, but can you pull the lockup control bits off the 46 and add to the diesel body? Alternatively, what exactly is different between gas & diesel - could you pull whatever springs and such off the diesel and use on the gas body to convert it?

<edit>
To be clear, what I was thinking of was using parts from the lockup gas 46rh I have currently in the truck to convert the non lockup 46rh in the doner truck to lockup.
</edit>

Suggestions on a good source for a rebuild kit/torque converter?

Is there a shift kit or similar worth putting in? It's for the wife and will be used for hauling horses, so overly jerky shifting is not great, and it's not going to be abused where I really need something that much better than stock, however if I'm in there and there's reasonably priced stuff to do that will help it live longer I'm all for it.

That's it for the moment, sure I'll have more later.

Thanks,
~John

NJTman

You are off to a great start. You will need a intercooler core support, or need to modify yours, as the gasser rad support is different.

Ecm, wiring harness from the donor

Angry johnny is your transmission guy to help through the technical upgrades for,the trans.

Engine upgrades?

Exh temp gauge, boost gauge, fuel pressure gauge. I have a 3- in- 1 which,I like.

Injector pumpu 366 governor spring, rotate the fuel pin, or buy aftermarket. Turn the pump up with the fuel regulator screw, but the sticky should give you guidelines regarding, as you want to do in stages, with a stop block if you turn too far to runaway. All in the sticky.

You can bump the timing, but I've never needed,to do so, as my truck runs great with an upgraded turbo wheel, 366 spring, and fuel pin.

There is a lift pump upgrade, but be sure to buy quality, as the cheapo ones are not reliable fuel pressure, and you'll blow seals and fill your engine with diesel fuel (ask Edwin)

You could do a compression leakdown test, and see if it would be worthwhile to replace the head gasket, as the #6 cylinder gets a bit hotter, and sometimes causes gasket deterioration, but as long as you don't go crazy with boost pressures, it most likely will never cause you an issue. Most of us have well over 200,000 miles on our rides, and no engine issues to speak of. Not necessary with light mods.


The engine is just breaking in at 150,000

With the engine out, replace the flexplate with a new, sfi approved flexplate. The oem ones crack.

Lots of great people here, and great info in the sticky

oliver foster

T man did a great job on laying down a plan of attack.

I would add common gaskets I like to change out before installing 12Vs in my projects.
Rear main seal
Front main seal while the cover is off to tab the KDP
Tappet cover, especially if the pump is already coming off for a re-seal.

I get most of my filters and gaskets from Geno's Garage.
The VE Pump re-seal kits I get off E-bay or the last set I had Eric over at The Hungry Diesel send out with a couple of HVLP Lift pumps, 366 springs and a couple of fuel pins.

You might want to check out the frost plugs as well.

I have installed a few HX-35 turbos on my 1st gens with good results as well.

Since you have the donor truck... IF you want all the gauges and functions to work like stock - I would plan on changing the dash, engine bay and engine harnesses.

Have fun on the build and let us know if you have any questions.

NJTman

One of the great peoples I mentioned.....

cabtruck

thrashingcows

Welcome and great project your taking on.

As for doing anything internal on the motor....nope just do some seals and gaskets and your good to go. No need to change injectors either, stock injectors are good up to about 400hp I believe?, just a re-seal on the VE IP while you have easy access and a few tweaks will have the performance your looking for.

The HX35 is a cheap and easy upgrade and since you'll be pulling through the mountains I would recommend a Power Stroke Intercooler upgrade.....you will a much easier time controlling EGT's with that big beast out front. I did one on my crewcab (scroll through my build thread on that one) and have done a bunch of mountain pulling....never see more then 1000*....well within the safe zone.

As for the tranny rebuild/upgrade check out Angry Johnny's thread on converting a 46rh to a lock up....should have most of the info you need in that thread.

I put a piston lift pump kit on my motor from OFI (oregon fuel injection) 8 years ago now, still working great with 8-10 psi at idle and a solid 7psi at WOT.

Would recommend a full front and rear axle re/re..all bearings, seals, new king pins on the front, brakes etc. I rebuilt the front and rear diffs in my donor truck before I swapped them to my crewcab.

Angry Johnny

While I wouldn't use the input shaft and reaction shaft, sometimes called the stator support, from the gas truck the valve body should be fine as long as it has the boost tube, and it should. You can't use much of the non lockup valve body on the lock up body. The big difference in the diesel calibration is the governor assembly. You can use the input and reaction shafts from any 47RH or RE. I found mine on EvilBay.

Now getting your lockup working correctly automatically is another story. I'm going to have to do a write up one of these days on this I just don't have the time right now. I ended up using 2 relays and two Hobbs switches with a latching circuit to get it to where it doesn't hunt at certain speeds. Do not believe what any site tells you about governor pressure being about 1 PSI per 1 MPH on a diesel. That works for a gas version but the diesel runs much higher governor pressure to get the trans to shift at the lower RPM range of the diesel.

https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...-cheap-318014/

bigragu

Reseal the vacuum pump while it’s out in the open. Those tend to leak since they are over 20 years old. Tappet cover as mentioned for sure. I would re seal the intake plate, on the drivers side of the engine where the intake air enters the engine.
All those sensors on top of the intake plate, that control the ksb and grid heaters, if funds allow, change those out. Another seal I didn’t see mentioned was the rear main. And the seals surrounding the rear main. Heck, do the oil pan gasket while you’re at it.

Lastly, as I’m a big advocate on these cause they are a pain to get to once the engine is in place, and are truly inexpensive considering the failure could leave you stranded, are the freeze plugs- 3 on the passenger side, one at the rear, and one at the front behind the fan clutch pulley hub. Cummins has them all in stainless steel now.

sdmuleman

Thanks.

Definitely going to run pyro & boost gauges.

Looked at the PSD intercooler, may do that down the road. My doner is a stock IC truck and for what I'm doing I don't think the upgrade is needed just yet.

I'm going to do front & rear main seals, oil pan and probably head gasket.

Are the head bolts reusable? Any reason to get studs for a mild tune?

Will do the vacuum pump seals.

Didn't think about freeze plugs. Are these the common cup style? Fords have these odd PIA disc one, hence I'm a bit gun shy about freeze plugs....

I'm surprised to see so much mention of the fuel lift pump - I knew low pressure was a significant issue on the later Cummins with the VP44, but hadn't heard it being a major issue on these as well. VE pump shouldn't be that sensitive to lift pump pressure...


Questions -

Any radiator upgrades? Definitely need a new one, should I just get the standard rock auto whatever or is there better?

Any specific thermostat to get/avoid? Ford's you only get motorcraft because none of the aftermarket ones are the right design. Same here or not?

I'm unclear - do I need to change the underdash harness or not? I've got the full engine bay harness & ECM as well as the diesel specific indicator light module and can pull the dash harness but I rather not tear the dash apart if I don't have to.

Axle work is down the road. The gasser truck has good stuff under it (just had the bearings & seals done in the rear at a painful cost due to the driveline sucking up some plastic crap at 2am on the freeway and eating the seal/input bearing) although it's 4.10 ratio. The doner has 3.55s which I'd like to swap to, but the axles are a rusty mess. Probably down the road I'll rebuild those and swap them in.

sdmuleman

Interesting, I thought the valve bodies were different. So all that changes in the governor pressure? That's helpful. Now I just have to decide if I can figure out how to put the one I tore apart to clean & inspect back together again....

Any reccomendations on where to get the front pump/stator support/shaft/torque converter? I read your thread and it sounded like you initially got the wrong stuff?

I also had a 46RH in this truck (the gasser) fail last year due to the pump seizing - not sure why that happened but I'm a bit paranoid about trans pumps now and want to make sure it's right.

Any special tools that are needed?

Lockup control I can figure out. My take would probably be to use a PIC type microcontroller taking an input off the vehicle speed sensor. Seems like it would be pretty easy to make a simple control board driving a relay for lockup control and the program would also be simple and easy. Then of course you can use it for all sorts of other stuff like temperature/pressure monitoring & alarms....

Angry Johnny

No the parts were correct, just a crappy reman converter. I put a single disc billet front cover converter in it and it's been fine ever since. It appears the rotor lobe configuration really doesn't mean squat.

sdmuleman

Got the engine & trans out and started stripping/tearing stuff down. Head is off the engine and everything looks pretty nice. Still have the original crosshatching on all 6 bores. Valves and seats had some wear but not bad. Exhaust guides likewise are a bit loose but within spec. Thought about having liners put in, but decided not to in part because the last 'oh that's a simple easy job' I sent to the machine shop has been a month long saga and I still don't have it back yet. Valves and seats are ground, need to get detergent for my spray washer to get it cleaned up and waiting for valve seals to get that put back together.

Haven't pop tested the injectors yet, and haven't checked the bottom end. As little wear as the bores have I don't expect the bearings to have any real wear but going to check anyway.

KDP fix hasn't been done though it looks like someone maybe have hammered it back in. No retainer tab though. Maybe they coated it with loctite an called that good enough?

Not sure what I'm going to do with the injection pump. The truck held prime and doesn't seem to leak any, so the shaft seal is holding but the pump shaft seemed to have more axial play than I expected and I haven't checked radial play. The pumps are easy enough to reseal, but the adjustments on this are bit more critical than the tractor/industrial engines I've typically done pumps on so I'm leaning towards not getting into it if I don't have to. On the flip side, getting that pump off in the truck seems like it would be a pain.

Surprisingly nothing important is rusty enough to be a problem. This is the first east coast/rust belt rig I've worked on, and I was expecting much more trouble with rusty fasteners and such especially since this truck had the frame rusted in half. Only thing that looks to be a problem so far is the AC compressor bolts being seized to the compressor and the alternator being seized from sitting.

So far for the engine here's what I've got:
-valve job
-replace all major gaskets/seals
-check bearings
-KDP fix
-pop test injectors
-lift pump
-water pump
-serpentine belt/tensioner/fan mount bearing
-freeze plugs
-fan clutch
-vacuum pump seals
-radiator
-coolant hoses (radiator & misc small hoses)


Trans:
-lockup stator support
-lockup input shaft
-refurbish pump
-lockup converter

Questions:
Any thoughts on this radiator? https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Row-All-A...4383.l4275.c10

Is there a easy reasonable priced way to get a kit with all the little coolant hoses? I'd like to replace all the little odds and ends hoses on the engine since I've been bitten in the past with the little hidden hose being the one which leaks and shows up at the worst time.

What do ya'll recommend for trans work? I'm getting overwhelmed with all the info out there and trying to figure out what is actually worthwhile for my requirements. Standard rebuild kit looks like about $200 off rock auto, plus about $300 for the converter on the low side, or PATC has the 'level 2 viper' kit w/converter & rebuild kit for $1050 on the more pricey side.

NJTman

Fyi. The kdp doesn't require a tab. You can simply peen the casing into the hole where the pin resides, just enough to prevent the pin from shaking loose. Sounds like someone did that, by your description. Check the other timing case bolts, as they can loosen up as well. Locktite them back in where possible.

sdmuleman

Why not? What I've found seems to say the input shaft is the same for gas/diesel.

Angry Johnny

If you look at my thread in the sticky I point out what is different. The diesel version has a larger input shaft and bushing then the gas versions.