new trailer ,need cdl ?
10-17-2006, 07:10 PM
#31
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Yes and ingnorance is bliss. Have you ever pulled a car hauler? You are always illegal somewhere. Generally if inspected they write two or three things and then stop. Most of the time they can get me for overhight, all the time too much overhang. Depending on the state (they are all different) I get overwidth, overloaded on the trailer axles, over length.
In the real world, you do what you have to, learn the laws real good and what you can get away with, where not to go, and pay a fine now and then. You also learn fast the bridges that are lower than 14-2 or 14-4. My factory made trailer is right at 104 wide, I'm 75 feet long empty and over hang at least 3 1/2 feet on both ends. Soon will add three foot extentions. Dot sort of winks at us, any one of us can get a half dozen tickets on any stop. When they need to write some, they write.
The new scales "super scales" you drive through at 30 mph if the light is green, the scale officer has on the screen your length, hight, and rough weight. Look at any of the haulers, take a Pete or Kw, midroof sleeper, and an suv over the top of that. Over 14 I promase. On the other hand, you can drive 14-4 from San Antone to LA with no bridges to stop you except one on 610 in San Antone. Southern Florida to Alabama is good for near 15 feet.
I have a radio antenna, stainless, that is 14-8, lets me know where the bridges are. When you read the FMCSA manual, read what it says, not what you think it means. Like fuel tank plates, they have to say what the specs are, nothing about the factory being the only one that can print one.
All that being said, if you exceed your plated weight and/or the spec plate weight, your insurance can be void. And the poster is right about the over 10,000 pound trailer being cdl. Look on the back of any cdl and it says so. Ticket with the 40 foot, pulling show cars. If they compete for a prize, they are commercial. Here in Alabama and Georgia, all troopers are DOT and the state is pushing all small town cops to get certified.
In the real world, you do what you have to, learn the laws real good and what you can get away with, where not to go, and pay a fine now and then. You also learn fast the bridges that are lower than 14-2 or 14-4. My factory made trailer is right at 104 wide, I'm 75 feet long empty and over hang at least 3 1/2 feet on both ends. Soon will add three foot extentions. Dot sort of winks at us, any one of us can get a half dozen tickets on any stop. When they need to write some, they write.
The new scales "super scales" you drive through at 30 mph if the light is green, the scale officer has on the screen your length, hight, and rough weight. Look at any of the haulers, take a Pete or Kw, midroof sleeper, and an suv over the top of that. Over 14 I promase. On the other hand, you can drive 14-4 from San Antone to LA with no bridges to stop you except one on 610 in San Antone. Southern Florida to Alabama is good for near 15 feet.
I have a radio antenna, stainless, that is 14-8, lets me know where the bridges are. When you read the FMCSA manual, read what it says, not what you think it means. Like fuel tank plates, they have to say what the specs are, nothing about the factory being the only one that can print one.
All that being said, if you exceed your plated weight and/or the spec plate weight, your insurance can be void. And the poster is right about the over 10,000 pound trailer being cdl. Look on the back of any cdl and it says so. Ticket with the 40 foot, pulling show cars. If they compete for a prize, they are commercial. Here in Alabama and Georgia, all troopers are DOT and the state is pushing all small town cops to get certified.
Yes, my business was hauling cars, primarily specialty cars using single and 2-car enclosed trailers. But I also had 40' flat decks in the fleet (and one gent with a 24' tandem axle flatdeck for Duallies and Hummers!).
I never had the height problem because I didn't let anybody contract to me that had a wedge. Only flatdecks and enclosed (not stackers). And the driver that bought Vehicle Valet from me has stayed with that policy, as far as I know.
The FMCSA publishes the green book to define minimum Federal Standards. However, as long as it meets those minimum standards, each state has the lattitude to add MORE restrictions, and each state also has their own interpretations of the Federal Standards. Thus the confusion and sometimes contradictions.
That being said, in 3 years I had drivers get ticketed for having an illegal weapon, having a cooler with beer in the bed of the truck, not having the appropriate drivers license (the Utah incident I mentioned earlier), not having cargo properly secured (the tiedowns were not rated high enough), and having a cracked windshield. But as a business, I never recieved a single citation, nor did I personally as a driver in a half million miles. With a minimum of prudence, it can be done (in spite of your insinuations above).
10-17-2006, 09:49 PM
#34
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He said "if you are hauling for profit" you would need a DOT# and health card which is correct. Non-commercial rigs have different requirements by state, but commercial laws are universal. Thus the statement by H-I-D that a trailer over 10,000 automatically requires a CDL is false.
10-17-2006, 10:36 PM
#35
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Florida rules
There are several types of CDL as indicated in some of these posts. Here in Florida, if you buy at truck over 5,000 pounds, you need a class D just to drive the thing empty. The dealerships are not telling buyers about this so as to not loose a sale. They had it on the news and the saleman knew the information but did not offer it unless he was ask. You buy a tag for how much load you will gross on the truck if you are pulling a bumper pulled trailer. The gross of a gooseneck trailer must be added to the truck tag. As your load increases, so does the level of CDL you have to have. Class A is required for loads greater than 26,000 pounds, or running for hire. Most loads just below 26,000 pounds require class B running for hire or class C private. Bumper pulled trailers are tagged by how much the thing weighs empty. I am pulling 24 ft bumper pull with a 3/4 ton and do not even slow down at the weigh stations. But the best thing to do is make a simple trip down the the local licences office and pick up a CDL manual. It will explain all the requirements including any endorsements needed such as passenger, hazzard, etc. Just my $.02 worth
10-18-2006, 01:34 AM
#36
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Looks like your drivers were a class act....
Oh well, maybe I will figure it all out when I get some experience
10-18-2006, 02:46 AM
#38
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Herb, technically you need Private Carrier Authority to haul your own product and it is definately commercial. I would look into it as the fines are really big if you get some rookie trying to make a name. A local auction paid over $5000 in fines on the no authority deal. Used car dealers get away with this regularly because they have the title on the cars, but as I said, the fines are great if a cop takes you to task.
10-18-2006, 04:03 PM
#39
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There are several types of CDL as indicated in some of these posts. Here in Florida, if you buy at truck over 5,000 pounds, you need a class D just to drive the thing empty. The dealerships are not telling buyers about this so as to not loose a sale. They had it on the news and the saleman knew the information but did not offer it unless he was ask. You buy a tag for how much load you will gross on the truck if you are pulling a bumper pulled trailer. The gross of a gooseneck trailer must be added to the truck tag. As your load increases, so does the level of CDL you have to have. Class A is required for loads greater than 26,000 pounds, or running for hire. Most loads just below 26,000 pounds require class B running for hire or class C private. Bumper pulled trailers are tagged by how much the thing weighs empty. I am pulling 24 ft bumper pull with a 3/4 ton and do not even slow down at the weigh stations. But the best thing to do is make a simple trip down the the local licences office and pick up a CDL manual. It will explain all the requirements including any endorsements needed such as passenger, hazzard, etc. Just my $.02 worth
IF you are hauling as yu claim, then you need a cdl, as your truck weighs over 5000 lbs. (the way you explain it).
A class c cdl is for passengers or hazmat.
10-18-2006, 08:58 PM
#40
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Depends on where he is from. An Alabama driver can drive all over Florida with a 30,000 pound rv with no special license. The rule is that if you are legal in your home state, you are legal in the US. A driver has to comply with the state he resides in for non commercial driving. Most state have no special license for private use. There is no way that they can comply with a state that requires a different license, so they do not need it. It is only a few years that Alabama had a CDL type license. I drove many years 48 states on my passenger car license. So the feds stepped in and required a CDL. That has not been done in private use.
10-18-2006, 09:00 PM
#41
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Hey Herb, if you are under 26,000 you do not need a commercial license anyway, forgot about that in the earlier post, you are quite light,but your state may require a cdl for a trailer with a gvw over 10,000.
10-18-2006, 09:15 PM
#42
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I'm from florida. In high school, i got a chauffeur license. I could drive anything. There was no cdl. When the cdl came about, had I not been overseas in the military, I could have got one via being grandfathered.
Wish I had now........
Wish I had now........
11-08-2006, 02:39 PM
#43
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Pull this off of the Michigan DOT site... Sounds to me like unless you get it tagged for less than 26,000 you need a CDL from what I read here...
Who needs a commercial driver's license (CDL)?
You need to earn your CDL if you intend to:
Operate any vehicle weighing 26,001 pounds or more.
Tow a trailer or other vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 10,001 pounds or more with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of all vehicles of 26,001 pounds or more.
Operate any vehicle designed to transport 16 or more people (including the driver).
Operate any vehicle carrying hazardous materials in amounts requiring placards.
Are there CDL exemptions?
Yes. You won't need a Michigan CDL if:
You're on active duty in the military―or in the National Guard―and are operating military vehicles with military licenses.
You're a police officer or firefighter and are operating emergency vehicles.
You're a farm worker operating a farm vehicle within a 150-mile radius of your farm. (You will need an "F" endorsement on your regular operator license if you're driving a combination vehicle whose towing vehicle weighs more than 26,000 pounds.)
You are driving your own motor home.
Who needs a commercial driver's license (CDL)?
You need to earn your CDL if you intend to:
Operate any vehicle weighing 26,001 pounds or more.
Tow a trailer or other vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 10,001 pounds or more with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of all vehicles of 26,001 pounds or more.
Operate any vehicle designed to transport 16 or more people (including the driver).
Operate any vehicle carrying hazardous materials in amounts requiring placards.
Are there CDL exemptions?
Yes. You won't need a Michigan CDL if:
You're on active duty in the military―or in the National Guard―and are operating military vehicles with military licenses.
You're a police officer or firefighter and are operating emergency vehicles.
You're a farm worker operating a farm vehicle within a 150-mile radius of your farm. (You will need an "F" endorsement on your regular operator license if you're driving a combination vehicle whose towing vehicle weighs more than 26,000 pounds.)
You are driving your own motor home.
11-09-2006, 10:43 AM
#44
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We went through the same issues towing through Arizona and New Mexico a while ago. The trailer had GVW 21,000, the F450 truck GVW was 11,500. With an unloaded trailer, we were certainly under 26,000. The cops said it was sum total GVW based, said we needed CDL and cited us. The cops did not fully understand the law.
Similar to the Michigan wording, the Arizona law 28-3101 says a Class D license is valid when:
(4) (c) A motor vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of twenty-six thousand pounds or less that tows a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of more than ten thousand pounds if the combined gross vehicle weight rating is less than twenty-six thousand one pounds.
Obviously, the key wording is:
if the combined gross vehicle weight rating is less than twenty-six thousand one pounds.
The F450 has GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating) of 26,000. This has nothing to do with what the trailer is rated. When we pointed this out to the prosecutors, they were already aware of the issue due to having the same cops having a history of mistakenly citing people. They prosecutors said we were in compliance and did not need CDL.
They said if there is no GCWR on the truck, then they use the sum total GVWs of truck and trailer.
Similar to the Michigan wording, the Arizona law 28-3101 says a Class D license is valid when:
(4) (c) A motor vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of twenty-six thousand pounds or less that tows a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of more than ten thousand pounds if the combined gross vehicle weight rating is less than twenty-six thousand one pounds.
Obviously, the key wording is:
if the combined gross vehicle weight rating is less than twenty-six thousand one pounds.
The F450 has GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating) of 26,000. This has nothing to do with what the trailer is rated. When we pointed this out to the prosecutors, they were already aware of the issue due to having the same cops having a history of mistakenly citing people. They prosecutors said we were in compliance and did not need CDL.
They said if there is no GCWR on the truck, then they use the sum total GVWs of truck and trailer.
11-09-2006, 02:54 PM
#45
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We went through the same issues towing through Arizona and New Mexico a while ago. The trailer had GVW 21,000, the F450 truck GVW was 11,500. With an unloaded trailer, we were certainly under 26,000. The cops said it was sum total GVW based, said we needed CDL and cited us. The cops did not fully understand the law.
Similar to the Michigan wording, the Arizona law 28-3101 says a Class D license is valid when:
(4) (c) A motor vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of twenty-six thousand pounds or less that tows a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of more than ten thousand pounds if the combined gross vehicle weight rating is less than twenty-six thousand one pounds.
Obviously, the key wording is:
if the combined gross vehicle weight rating is less than twenty-six thousand one pounds.
The F450 has GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating) of 26,000. This has nothing to do with what the trailer is rated. When we pointed this out to the prosecutors, they were already aware of the issue due to having the same cops having a history of mistakenly citing people. They prosecutors said we were in compliance and did not need CDL.
They said if there is no GCWR on the truck, then they use the sum total GVWs of truck and trailer.
Similar to the Michigan wording, the Arizona law 28-3101 says a Class D license is valid when:
(4) (c) A motor vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of twenty-six thousand pounds or less that tows a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of more than ten thousand pounds if the combined gross vehicle weight rating is less than twenty-six thousand one pounds.
Obviously, the key wording is:
if the combined gross vehicle weight rating is less than twenty-six thousand one pounds.
The F450 has GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating) of 26,000. This has nothing to do with what the trailer is rated. When we pointed this out to the prosecutors, they were already aware of the issue due to having the same cops having a history of mistakenly citing people. They prosecutors said we were in compliance and did not need CDL.
They said if there is no GCWR on the truck, then they use the sum total GVWs of truck and trailer.