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How large of a trailer can I tow?

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Old 05-10-2004, 05:49 PM   #31  
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Quote:
Originally posted by Moose10
What is a "fuel permit" ?
He is talking about an IFTA sticker, some state charge for them, so do not, here in NC they are free, but you will be fined 1,000 per sticker if you can not account for stickers you have been issued. IFTA means that you have to keep track of which miles you run in each state so that at the end of the year, each state gets the fuel taxes for the gallons that you used going through their state, even if you buy fuel in another state. Some get money back, some have to pay, just depends on where you run. You have to have one if you are over 26K
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Old 05-10-2004, 06:08 PM   #32  
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Correct, we agree, Ah but now i see where you were going with your comment, i misunderstood you statement. For some idioc reason i thought you were implying that the GCVWR was a restrictive factor in what he could pull, all to often it seems as though everyone states that as fact, when it actually is exactly as you and i agree it is.

Physics book and Semi tractor trailer loading are the same when a trailer is designed and the trucks fifthwheel plate location is spec'd, its all based on lbs per sq inch of contact to the pavement. When I was designing and ordering out custom and standard trailers for my company I took those things into consideration, the ability of the truck and trailer to Bridge the weight.... Distribute evenly. I too managed/ worked in the trucking industry, I used to be an Operator too.
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Old 05-10-2004, 07:14 PM   #33  
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All I know is what I can do in Missouri. I am licensed as a farm vehicle, so whatever weight I license my truck at is put on my license plate and I can haul that much. I am licensed at 30,000# and that is well over my trucks factory recommendation. But as stated before, that is only a recommendation and could only void your warranty if the dealer can prove that you have exceeded those limits.
As far as whether you would need a CDL to haul your race cars, I wouldn't know. With my license it doesn't matter, no matter how much weight I carry. My suggestion is that you give your DOT a call and ask them. Then you will know for sure what your requirements are, and it would be up to you whether or not to abide by them or risk not getting caught.
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Old 05-10-2004, 08:47 PM   #34  
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I found out the hard way, you can actually be legal on your axles but over gross. Lyman, Co. scales tought we that little lesson LOL If i remeber correctly that was around $300 ticket ten years ago.

Aaron
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Old 05-14-2004, 09:56 PM   #35  
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Remember, if you get in a crash hauling more then the factory rating you could be spending some time in jail and fighting for your freedom in a court room. A drag racer out west killed 3 or 4 people a couple of year ago hauling is 24ft enclosed tag with a half ton pickup. because he was over the factory rating of his truck they tried to put him in prison. not sure of the outcome. but it makes me think twice how much i load into my trailer.
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Old 05-18-2004, 08:57 PM   #36  
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My opinion is the manuf. of all trucks want to give the highest possible weight ratings. This will help sell there trucks. I believe the frame, springs, brakes, and all parts are made to handle the recommended weights. Much better to have more truck than you need.
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Old 05-19-2004, 01:55 AM   #37  
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Quote:
Originally posted by rvnagain
My opinion is the manuf. of all trucks want to give the highest possible weight ratings. This will help sell there trucks. I believe the frame, springs, brakes, and all parts are made to handle the recommended weights. Much better to have more truck than you need.
I don't believe that there is any truth to that at all. A good example is the 2500 with all the same componants as the 3500 but an 8800 pound GVW. They are more afraid of standing behind the drive line. The Dodge engine is engineered with the cam and pump to cut down the low end torque to save the driveline. In the case of the 1/2 ton posted above, the axles and tires had to be seriously overloaded. I do not overload the tires and axles but pull 33,000 gross combination weight. If it is not posted on the spec plate, it is not relevant to safety.

There is a big difference in vehicle weight and combination weight. The gross vehicle weight involves the entire load being carried on the truck, has top heavy problems, all stopping with the truck brakes, etc. Combination weight has the load on the trailer and 25% on the truck, with the trailer brakes capable of stopping the trailer gross weight, leaving the truck brakes to stop the weight of the empty truck only, none of the load. Therefore if the truck is capable of carrying the 25% without going over the axle capacity and tire capacity, it is legal with the proper plates and insurance.

Want proof, you know darn well that you could not insure a vehicle for more than it could handle. Mine is insured for 33,000 combination weight. That alone will keep you out of jail. My original u joints and light duty transfer case have over 261,000 of these heavy miles on them. It did take out the drivers side carrier bearing on the rear. Just changed the bearings.
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Old 05-19-2004, 09:54 AM   #38  
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1leg
Remember, if you get in a crash hauling more then the factory rating you could be spending some time in jail and fighting for your freedom in a court room. A drag racer out west killed 3 or 4 people a couple of year ago hauling is 24ft enclosed tag with a half ton pickup. because he was over the factory rating of his truck they tried to put him in prison. not sure of the outcome. but it makes me think twice how much i load into my trailer.
He was over the GVWR 6000lbs GVW probably and every tire and axle was over weight. like HID said, Plus it was a tag trailer thats a big part of it, a GN can be loaded differently and when used with a 8800+ GVW pickup it is possible to have only 2000lbs+ pin weight or so and have FULL controll over the remaining loaded trailer which can easily exceed the FACTORY RECOMMENDATION. GCVW is just that a recommendation. A properly loaded trailer and truck are limited by thier overall features not a factory recommendation, location of axles, length from pin to center of axles, these factors ultimately result in the vehicles ability to Bridge the load, distribute it properly, lbs per sq inch of tire contact on the road.

GVWR is a mandated DOT rating for the capacity of the load placed on vehicle plus the vehicle's unladen weight.

Add the trailer GVWR + The Truck GVWR and you have your total GCWR




Quote:
Originally posted by rvnagain
My opinion is the manuf. of all trucks want to give the highest possible weight ratings. This will help sell there trucks. I believe the frame, springs, brakes, and all parts are made to handle the recommended weights. Much better to have more truck than you need.

Quote:
Originally posted by Haulin_in_Dixie
I don't believe that there is any truth to that at all. A good example is the 2500 with all the same componants as the 3500 but an 8800 pound GVW. They are more afraid of standing behind the drive line. The Dodge engine is engineered with the cam and pump to cut down the low end torque to save the driveline. In the case of the 1/2 ton posted above, the axles and tires had to be seriously overloaded. I do not overload the tires and axles but pull 33,000 gross combination weight. If it is not posted on the spec plate, it is not relevant to safety.

There is a big difference in vehicle weight and combination weight. The gross vehicle weight involves the entire load being carried on the truck, has top heavy problems, all stopping with the truck brakes, etc. Combination weight has the load on the trailer and 25% on the truck, with the trailer brakes capable of stopping the trailer gross weight, leaving the truck brakes to stop the weight of the empty truck only, none of the load. Therefore if the truck is capable of carrying the 25% without going over the axle capacity and tire capacity, it is legal with the proper plates and insurance.

Want proof, you know darn well that you could not insure a vehicle for more than it could handle. Mine is insured for 33,000 combination weight. That alone will keep you out of jail. My original u joints and light duty transfer case have over 261,000 of these heavy miles on them. It did take out the drivers side carrier bearing on the rear. Just changed the bearings.



Exackery HID
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Old 05-19-2004, 10:04 AM   #39  
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DOT regulations and civil court are two different scenarios. Manufacturer's weight limits DO matter in civil court, as determined by a jury after the plaintiff's lawyer and his expert witnesses have presented their case. Hope you "heavy haulers" have lots of per occurence and per individual liability insurance when you hit that loaded 66-passenger school bus!

If you don't believe me on this, I'd suggest you go talk to your attorney. That's what I did!

Rusty
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Old 05-19-2004, 10:47 AM   #40  
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"DOT regulations and civil court are two different scenarios. Manufacturer's weight limits DO matter in civil court, as determined by a jury after the plaintiff's lawyer and his expert witnesses have presented their case. Hope you "heavy haulers" have lots of per occurence and per individual liability insurance when you hit that loaded 66-passenger school bus!

Rusty"



Only on the Truck Chassis GVWR. (Or the Trailer's GVWR) But not the manufacturers GCVW recommendation. If the Truck Chassis is overloaded yes a civil court has ground to stand on, Beyond that if you are LEGAL LICENSED to DOT specs and following the federal carrier regulations they do not have any ground to stand on. This has been to the courts already, several lawsuits have contended this issue over the years, it is discussed in trade magazine about once a year, none have held water so long as the conditions surrounding the situation met DOT regs.

Which is like i said before, the Trailer GVW+the Truck GVW. These GVW's are applied to the Vehicles by DOT, then the additional factor is weight distribution, lbs per sq inch of contact. DOT is the law and it sets the regulations that Civil Court governs by. Manufacturers dont set weight limits DOT does and as to the GCVWR if it is not on the placard that is because it is a recommendation.


If your arguement were true every Hot-shot and commercial heavy pickup hauler in the US would be quiting the industry.

So long as we are within our legal weight restrictions, every tire is at or below capacity, every axle truck and trailer is at or below thier capacity, and our total weight is below total licensed GVW and fits within the Legal description of our capacities by DOT guidelines weight and length, lbs per sq inch, the court will throw the case out.

Since you believe this so much I propose that you name a few cases where your arguement holds true. Odds are that one or more DOT regulation was broken blatently before it was taken to court, ie the vehicle had too much weight on it's chassis (pin weight was too much trailer is loaded right), was over DOT licensed GVW, any axle was excessively overloaded, brakes were not within spec, tires were overloaded, lbs per sq inch exceeded the the road's capacity. I know for a fact that every time a case like that goes to court it is because of neglagence, items like i just listed.

If a manufacturers GCVW recommendation held water alot of RVrs would be going to court too. Yet with most normal accidents very few do go to court and when they do it is like i said above, because of thier own neglagence in not abiding by DOT law, which does hold water in a civil court. There is no denying it that if you hit a school bus or such there is no doubt somebody really screwed up and you are going to court to settle it.

No offense intended just stating the facts, the way it has been for the last 20 years and why we all get away with what we do. if there was a problem like you mentioned our insurance carriers would have informed us and dropped us years ago, especially since we have to declare and insure for our licensed capacity.

You hope that we carry insurance, DOT law madates that we carry specified insurance just like each state regulates that vehicles within must have thier liability coverage. And since DOT writes the laws of the road all commercial carriers comply if they want to use the roads including Hotshots and heavy haulers.


Dusty
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Old 05-19-2004, 04:31 PM   #41  
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Quote:
Originally posted by RustyJC
DOT regulations and civil court are two different scenarios. Manufacturer's weight limits DO matter in civil court, as determined by a jury after the plaintiff's lawyer and his expert witnesses have presented their case. Hope you "heavy haulers" have lots of per occurence and per individual liability insurance when you hit that loaded 66-passenger school bus!

If you don't believe me on this, I'd suggest you go talk to your attorney. That's what I did!

Rusty
There we go, some public opinion is that we are only out there trying to kill kids and run over pregnant women. I generally try to miss the school busses, especially when they are stopped. I will say this, if you hit one, you are going to court, regardless of the circumstances.

Minimum insurance is set by the federal government, and yes I have it. Actually hitting a school bus would be worse on me than the bus, he is heavier and higher, I would go under. My truck is safe, not a hazard, I don't drive unsafe vehicles. I resent being referred to as unsafe. I have been brake tested with my truck loaded, DOT does things like that. I can also stop faster than an 18 wheeler, that has been proven in the past.

Get used to the idea, the trucks are here to stay. If and when the traffic and economics get so bad that there is not enough room for all the trucks, some of the cars will be removed. The trucks have to run or the country dies. If fuel is ratined in the future, you may walk, but the trucks will still run. Maybe not mine, but most will and will have to. Jeez, the kids might even have to walk to school like I did horrors

Wonder if you know what an Interstate highway is? It is a military highway in case of emergency, the feds take over, no cars allowed. Course they also take over what trucks they want.
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Old 05-19-2004, 06:23 PM   #42  
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Guys, I wasn't trying to bash anyone, infact i'm trying to get in this busness myself. I agree with everything you are saying. my comment was really geared to the RV type drivers. like I said I have no idea of the outcome of the case I stated, But i know and you can all agree that he was way over weight for a half ton truck. I see a lot of this on the road here in Socal. The other day i was in the number 2 lane doing 70mph and a guy towing a triple axle 30ft+ toy hauler with his bed full of camping gear, passed me on the right like i was standing still. it's insane what some of these RV's are doing. I know not all rv's are this way BUt you wouldn't know it driving around in socal on a Friday night.

Sorry guys, keep trucking
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Old 05-19-2004, 08:49 PM   #43  
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I have no problem whatsoever with properly licensed and maintained Class 7 or 8 rigs using any roads they legally can. I DO have a REAL problem with people running around in Dodge 2500s or F-250s calling themselves hotshots or car haulers while operating at up to 250% of the truck's GCWR (like 39,999 lbs GCW) just because they are too cheap to run the proper equipment.

Yes, I'm an RVer, and yes, based on legal advice, I run within my truck's ratings (10,380 lbs GVW versus 10,500 lbs GVWR; 21,180 lbs GCW versus 21,500 lbs GCWR) when towing our 36' 5th wheel.

Rusty
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Old 05-19-2004, 09:37 PM   #44  
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Quote:
Originally posted by RustyJC
I have no problem whatsoever with properly licensed and maintained Class 7 or 8 rigs using any roads they legally can. I DO have a REAL problem with people running around in Dodge 2500s or F-250s calling themselves hotshots or car haulers while operating at up to 250% of the truck's GCWR (like 39,999 lbs GCW) just because they are too cheap to run the proper equipment.

Yes, I'm an RVer, and yes, based on legal advice, I run within my truck's ratings (10,380 lbs GVW versus 10,500 lbs GVWR; 21,180 lbs GCW versus 21,500 lbs GCWR) when towing our 36' 5th wheel.

Rusty
Glad we got all that cleared up Rusty Thats me, cheap, dangerous and sorry, but legal. Real sorry you have a problem with me You have a nice day too.
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Old 05-19-2004, 10:23 PM   #45  
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Every hot shot i've seen aound here have all been 3500s or bigger(f450-F550), never seen one with more then 3 cars on it either. The only people I see driving around over loaded are RV'ers. And i have never been passed by a hot shot driver EVER not even when I'm towing. personaly I almost never go over 65 when i tow and try to maintain 60 most of the time. Safety first. And because I'm a RV'er I make sure i'm with in the towing guidlines of the manf.
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