My family has a long tradition of both wildland (USFS, BLM, CDF) and structure ( Kern county, China Lake NAWS, Oakley, ID) firefighting.( I havn't done it proffessionaly) Let me tell you, it sucks being the only kid on the field trip (with a big mouth) who knows what an aspirating foam nozzle is. And on the family ranch I have put in my share of time behind a Seal-tight drip torch, pulaski, and mcleod. So, with all the media coverage of the So-Cal fires, I haven't seen or heard of dozers pushing line. Are the environmentalists blocking them? Are they to hard to move on those windy roads? Are the winds so high they're scared of getting over run? It seems to me a good cat-skinner could push enough line around these neighborhoods to at least give them a fighting chance. All I have seen is wet line, back-fires, aerial water and phoscheck, structure protection and mop-up. Even a wheel loader, Grader or ag tractor with a disc could help. Maybe I just didn't see them. I know from expierience though that dozer's are frowned upon, One time we had a fast moving front (headed for our ranch buildings) with a dozer infront of it, and the BLM was concerned about some possible artifact sights (non-descript obsidian chips strewn about) that might be in the way, so they put an archeologist infront of the dozer. What a time waister, the only thing that saved us (when the line wasn't done in time) was the grazed off land on our side of the fence. Its a hard sell nowadays but open range livestock can and do have a positive affect on fire spread. The fire all but stopped at the fence and was easily contained with minmal effort. To this date no one has documented the alleged artifacts. At any rate, where have all the dozer's gone????

 

From what's been shown on TV, it looks like the roads and building sites are fairly level but the undeveloped land is so steep that a Cat couldn't stay upright. Has anyone actually toured a burn to confirm?

 

yea it looks pretty hilly, and when the fire gets close enough for any machinery to reach, it's to late and it hops right over to the houses with the wind.

 

quick call to wildland forest cousin says no equipment, no protection area for the time of prediction, limited area response and eight men to three dozers near us. just ain't happenin' quote unquote.....

Heidi in NY apply to Homeland Security AFG !!!!!

 

I remember getting calls early in the morning to bring our 'dozer to push fire breaks back home... These fires are big, tho. I bet they jump a 400 ft fire break no prob because of the wind and the fire size...

 

How do you stop a fire when there is 5% humidity, 45 mph winds, 80 mph gusts in the middle of a drought with a 'dozer?

 

the embers could be carried a long ways with the winds...so a fire line would need to be very very wide. theres not alot that can be done with those typed of fires until the weather cooperates. it is a very bad situation and if there are no fatalities, then the operation was a sucess. homes can be rebuild...i just feel for the ones who lost priceless family heirlooms and pics

brett

 

Believe me I know how far out spot fires can start and the winds were incredible, but with fire forecast and planning they could have a good idea about what neighborhoods were in danger long before the front reached them, I saw many homes being defended where the terrain would allow a dozer to push back the brush that was 10' out the back door. As for the hills, Ive seen a dozer go places I wouldn't walk. I never saw one, even way out in front pushing around houses, which is where they can do the most good, push it back, then backfire it. I just wanted to get some expert opinion on the subject. Any way, they are getting a handle on it now that the wind went from going offshore to on shore, now I'm in the smoke!

 

sometimes back fires can be very dangerous when the winds are so high, also with a large fire like those, they make their own wind...i dont like them at all!!

brett

 

I think they should gather up all the Cats they can find and dip em in buckets of water and use em like gunny sacks to whip the sides and back of the fire out.

 

The back fire they set on Camp Pendelton shut down I-5 for most of the morning. Even burned across the whole freeway. The freeway is a pretty good fire break, right? I think that all they could do was to take a defensive position to save as much property as possible. It looked like at times the fire front might be a mile wide and moving fast.
I guess we've got to get used to this every few years and learn how to fire proof homes better.

 

when a fire jumps a 6 lane highway cutting line with a cat probably won't do much good. until winds die down no ic in his right mind would put any manned equipment in the way of a fire of this size and intensity- just do as much structure protection as possible.