Off Duty

HMX1- Very Good points sir, and very valid.

Shorts

Off Duty, you don't know me as well as you think. Perhaps its the fact you've only been around this area for a month? The conversation is done. You've formed your opinion about who I am and I don't think what I'd say from here on out would matter to the point I was making in my original reply to the thread. It would be nice to get discounts at nice places.

The talk about "keeping it civil" is very noble considering you've have already sat and personally criticized me. I don't appreciate it.


For the rest of your requests, I won't submit a resume and credentials for your approval in order to consider my comments and opinions on parts of the life I/we lived while in service. I'm well aware of how things work in the Navy. We were there. It certainly isn't your place to tell me what I should or shouldn't be grateful for. You had friends and family serve. That is much appreciated.

I guess we aren't going to be friends anymore. I don't much need friends who will personally attack me or mine like you have just done. That type of crap is not part of a healthy debate on any topic. Rereading my reply to you I see where my comment saying "you're just as cheap and out of touch" started it. But I guess I "asked for it".

Off Duty, I appreciate now knowing your true colors. You can keep the opinion you have of me. It won't matter if I contest it.


Fellow members, I apologize for dragging this into the ditch. I'm finished with the thread.

Lary Ellis (Top)

Not your fault young lady........if you read his threads they ALL have a similar smell showing what it is that is REALLY bothering him. He states he never took advantage of any bennies from his Military service BUT he continually ridicules the fact that only current or retired card carrying Vets get the discounts.

He is upset because that is the category he falls in so all his bluster is really about the fact that HE doesn't get the discount, it has NOTHING to do with you or his concerns for returning Veterans. If you look closely at his posts he constantly points out his distaste for the benefits Corporate America also passes along to Veterans as well.

The part that bothers me, is that he dumps it on you as if it were your fault that he didn't Retire from the Military and thus have the card in his pocket he so obviously yearns for.

I saw this attitude before first hand when I was in Law Enforcement as well, MANY LE Officers feel slighted for not getting the same kind of respect as returning Vets, even though they to place their lives in danger on a daily basis......I agree it doesn't seem fair but still no reason to take it out on you.

Polaraco

I never take advantage of the vet opportunities. I think I used it once last summer when I visited the North Carolina. That was only because the old guy taking the admission spotted it in my fold. I only carry it when I am traveling. That's just in case I need the VA. But I have never been to any of the VA facilities either.

Rarely do I see a break for Firemen of Police. There must be a reason for it. Or is it maybe just a thought pattern by people. . .

Off Duty

Wow, it's been a long time since I've seen anyone with skin this thin.
Even longer since I've had 2 people "gang up" on me on a website.
(and those 2 I understood, they were dating. This charge to the rescue has me a bit baffled?)
That said, Shorts, lets straighten out a couple of things before I move on.

The fact is, I don't "know you" at all.
I've never met you and have had limited interactions with you on the site.
From the responses, you seem to be an icon here, and I'll respect your time here, but I'll not allow you to insult me and expect me to take it due to your gender or tenure.
Sadly you're jumping to an incorrect conclusion ma'am.
I have no "opinion(s)" about you one way or the other. I generally don't form opinions of people based upon my initial interaction with them on a website. There's simply no substance to allow that.
I'm actually pretty open minded when you get to know me. I try to see both sides of an arguement or discussion, and I've spent a lot of my L/E life, mediating disputes.
I would be pleased to have an open dialogue with you, and get to know you better.
If you don't want to do it here, please feel free to send me a PM. Heck, I'll even give you my phone number and we can talk like real people. Give it a try, you might be surprised to find out that I'm not the anti-military ogre Top wants to make me out to be.
[QUOTE] The talk about "keeping it civil" is very noble considering you've have already sat and personally criticized me. I don't appreciate it. /QUOTE]
I believe you may have the time line a little confused. This was my first response to you, after my initial post on the subject:
My point was simply to take the 30%, add it to the already low prices at the big chain stores, and let the troops get more for their money. And yes, you can get quality name brand items at the chains. If you purchase a SONY big screen at Penny's and one at WalMart, you have the same thing! No difference other than you have a few bucks left over to do more with.
I was probably a bit off base with this comment:
My thoughts were we're trying to do something nice for those returning.
What do you think the median rank of these troops will be?
I'm thinking E-4/6 on average?
Probably not the Nords types (I could be wrong again and I hate to stereotype).
I just want to see them get the biggest BANG for thier dollar!
Either way, it was probably out of line. My apologies for making the assumption.

My second comment was:
As you can tell, when you actually read the post, I obviously didn't know you. I thought you were the military "member", not the spouse.
Again, an invalid assumption on my part, and my apologies.

My final comment which "should" have clued you in that I had no idea who you were was:
Obviously, the "dude." part should have given it away...

Instead of a PM to square me away, or a courteous response, you chose this:
.
I can't say that I particulary appreciated that either. What did you expect? A thank you? Obviously it went down hill from there.

You're assertation that I "sat and criticized you" is a bit far fetched as well.
I responded to your allegations of poor quality and substandard conditions "for the military" with what I knew either first hand or through friends and family who have lived it. I do apologize for my attempt at humor in the first line. I didn't mean for this to get you or anyone else so bent out of shape.
The rest of the comments in the post are factual.
If you think not, please feel free to point them out. If I'm incorect, I'll admit it.
Shorts, your sarcasm is lost on me. I live with it every day
I wasn't asking for a resume'. My whole purpose behind asking was because soldiers and sailors and their spouses from different generations, had different obsticals to over come. As do NCO's vs Officers.
Didn't know where you fit in and was just trying to understand.
Grateful is a wide open subject. You have to admit, if you're not the one in the trenches, the travel has it's benefits, just as being transferred, uprooting kids and leaving family has it's pitfalls
Here's an example:
There's the woman I knew many years ago, the wife of an Air Force Instructor Pilot. He was a great guy, worked his **** off providing a good life for them. She did nothing, and I mean nothing, but gripe about the "events" and "functions" she "had" to attend as part of "his" duties.
They lived in a home and neighborhood, that most considered pretty upscale at the time. They both drove new Bimmers.
She was "well kept and manicured", hot as a brick of C4, and always dressed to the 10's, and she didn't hit a lick at a snake!
While he was on "deployment" to Vegas, she was hanging out at the casinos. While he was on "deployment" to Europe, she was touring London.
Do you see what I mean?
But I don't know your particulars so I have no way of knowing what you went through. That said, it's not fair to lump "all" military families in the same group.
Please feel free to point out to me the "attacks?"
Maybe you and I see the term "attack" in a different light.
Once I know what you consider an "attack", I'll know better how to respond in the future.
FYI- I generally don't "attack" anyone, physically or on the internet. It's simply not what i do.
Aside from the fact that apparently feel it was Ok, to insult me, if you did re-read the responses, you can't help but understand how I took it.
You didn't think that "You're as cheap and out of touch with the military as they are..." from someone who knows as little about me as I do about you, wasn't going to get a response?
I really think we both need to learn more about each other, and get a thicker skin.

Again, I have no "opinion" of you at this point, except that you're a well valued member here, and that possibly, you take things a bit too personally at times. We all have a slight tendency to do that.
For the record, you don't know a thing about my "true colors" ma'am.
My sincerest apologies for the perception of "going off" on you Shorts. That wasn't the intent of the post.

Off Duty

Like most, I keep my DL in my badge case along with my CC's.
On many occasions here and elsewhere, when they see the badge, a lot of places will offer some sort of discount.
We have a local restaruant that I frequent regularly, that has what the call a "Heroes Discount." It's a little embarrasing and I think the term is way overused.
That said, Although offered, I always refuse it. It's just uncomfortable.

Off Duty

Larry, I purposely did not respond to the earlier rant, out of respect for your positon here, and your apparent relationship with Shorts.
The whole "face to face" thing was a bit over the top, but hey, whatever?
IMO, this personal attack has gone too far.

Well thank you Dr. Phil

And what's up with all the ridicule?
"Smell?" Do you really believe any of what you just wrote, or are you simply venting?
Your assumptions are baseless, and drawn from what, an internet thread?Not at all what I expected from someone in your position.

Since you are so heavily into amateur psycho-analysis, let me help you out with some "facts."

For your edification, nothing's "bothering me." Lifes actually pretty good.
I'm retired once, looking at a second shortly. I have a few successful business irons in the fire and another kicking off in January.
I have a happy, healthy 5 year old grand daughter that lives with us, and at least for now, I have my health.

There are palm trees outside my window, and it's 70 degrees, sunny and clear as I type.
I'm 30 minutes from one beach, 40 from another and less than an hour from several others, including some of the finest beaches in the world!

The family's good, and I don't have to shovel snow to get to work.
All in all, I'd say "Life's good."

Now on to your assuptions.
Please allow me to help square those away for the record.

When I separated, I chose not to look into the veterans benefits. Not because I didn't want them, not because I didn't "deserve" them, but because I didn't "need" them.

I already had a home with a low interest rate, and wasn't planning on moving any time soon. Can the VA loans. (I'll save that for my Beach House if it's available).

I had health insurance through the agency I was with and the wife had a family plan through the hospital she worked for. The 2 plans together got us pretty much free medical, dental, eye care, and and "we" could choose our provider-Nix the need for the VA!
*NOTE*
I'll admit that more recently, I've had to purchase an HSA (since we've both retired now). The monthly is a bit steep (compared to free), but it has a lot of tax advantages, and we can still pick our providers, so it's all good.
I'll look into the VA, but I'm not holding my breath charlie.

I screwed the pooch on the Educational benefits, but at the time, I had no interest in going back to school. Unlike a lot of active duty vets who leave the mmilitary after X number of years, and still need the schooling to get a job, I had a job and simply wasn't in that boat.
In hindsight, I should have looked into it better, but wasn't in the mood. Hindsight as we all know, is 20/20.
Woulda, shoulda, coulda....doesn't matter now. There are so many LEEP, PELL and other grants out there now, if I wanted to go back to school on someone elses dime, I could.
No animosity there.

The part that "bothers me" the most, is your assumptions of "what bothers me." While I must respect them as your opinion, but, I don't have to accept them.
In light of that, here are a few factoids for you to ponder:

I'm not sure how you figured I'm "dumping" anything on Shorts?
I stated an opinion based on facts. My "facts" as personally experienced or learned through close friends and family that have also "lived it."

And it's my own fault that my military service ended up the way it did, no one elses. It was a great experience and I enjoyed every minute of it! I'd probably do it again if the opportunity arose.

But I should have taken more time to study and pass the tests, and spent less time doing training and P.R. events for the "team.".
While I don't "like" it, there's nothing I can or could have done about it. Believe me when I say, my command tried.
You see, our service unlike some others at the time, didn't base promotions on your ability to fog a mirror. I was too busy doing "other things" and didn't spend the time necessary studying or in some cases, even sitting for the tests. You no takey, you no gettie...
Oh well, live and learn. Life moves on...
(*note* more recently, while other services are scrambling to get volunteers, ours has discontinued recruiting and is hulling out applicants like bad fruit.)

I have always believed that God has a plan for us. We may not understand it, but we have to accept it.
For whatever reason, it wasn't in his plan for me to remain in, and who am I to question that? Simple enough for me to understand. I'll accept that and move on.

Since separating, I've been involved in some great adventures and opportunities.
I own and have owned some successfull business, done some things that please me immensely, and helped others with issues that I might not have been there to help with under other circumstances.
So I've been blessed in life.

As you might note, I have nothing to "yearn" for, Larry.
I've got all I need and more than I probably deserve.

Now, if you're still with me here and your head hasn't exploded, I'll give you a bit more substance to work with:

Yes, I'm so concerned about "me" that Veterans day a year ago, a local restaruant offered free meals to veterans with "proof of service." That was simple enough until you read the fine print.
Thier idea of "proof' was an "active" or "retired" ID card.
Did you happen to notice the obvious absence of the "reserve" ID, a copy of orders, or other documentation?? (I didn't think so).

I frequent this establishment every so often, and contacted the owner.
We discussed the fact that there are hundreds of local vets, that have returned to civilian life, and no longer carry an "active" ID, yet are not "retired."
Also, that there are hundreds of reserve troops in the area, that were called to "active duty", may or may not have seen combat as "active duty" troops, then returned to their civilian jobs and reserve status, with neither an "active" or a "retired" ID.
These folks are not going to fit into either category.

Then there are the Vietnam era vets, many of which did a 3-4 year hitch and got the hell out. And unlike todays returning veterans, came back to a less than "warm" reception. IMO, they still deserve the THANK YOU they never received! If you're in that group, THANK YOU!

Again, all of these groups were inadvertantly left out of the offer.
If we didn't learn anything from Vietnam, it should have been NOT TO IGNORE any of them!

Now I don't fit into any of those groups, so I must have had an ulterior motive, right? yes, let me continue...

It was to make sure that those who served were recognized!!!
I took the time to explain to the owner, what his staff could look and ask for, to validate someones previous status, dates of service, etc.

None of the staff or management were prior servicve, and just wanted to do "something nice" for the veterans. A nice gesture, but none of them knew what to look for.

They immediately changed the ad and made the offer open to all prior service personnel.
BTW Larry.....even though I "now" qualified for the offer, and although requested by the owner to join him, I politely chose to opt out, as I do most others.
Because you see Larry, "It ain't about ME!"
I can afford to buy my meals.
Besides, I don't feel as though I "deserve" the recognition along side my combat brethren. I have my own reasons for feeling that way.
Regardless, I did it for the guys and gals that deserved it!
(but I'm somehow jealous right Larry?)
This is just one instance of those that served being left out.
I don't really give a fat rat's anus what corporate America does for the vets. Whatever they get is fine with me.
What bothers me, is the vast numbers that are left out of a lot of these "offers."
I can't tell you how many times I've seen discount offers from various attractions and other businesses here, that limit themselves to "active duty" only, dismissing the reserves and retirees.
How would you feel about that after laying it on the line for 20+ years? After "laying in your trench" next to your crapper for days at at time "waiting for that one shot", only to be excluded from the opportunity to take your kids, grandkids and family to one of the attractions at a discounted rate, just because you were not "active" any longer?

Then put yourself in the shoes of the reservist (if they'll fit).
These guys go out, lay it on the line just like you, come back to reserve status (or get out) and they're all of a sudden exempted from any offers!
The same goes for the active duty troop that separates early and non-medically.
Do you somehow see the "equity" in that?
Heck, in the 1st GW, our reserve troops were deploying in country before any of the active duty forces other than the cutter crews!
Yet many of those same troops are ignored on these and other offers.

You implied in your previous rant on me, that our government may have lied about the benefits they offered at enlistment.
I'm shocked! Our government or a recruiter lie?
Never!
Ah, so be the government as it may, shouldn't the troops that have served, especially those that were in country, be able to enjoy some of the benefits everyone else does?

As an aside, even when included, I seldom take advantage of these offers.
I did the same in law enforcement. I usually avoided the "free meals" and other gratuities. If the restaruant demanded, then I left enough "tip" to cover the bill. How did YOU handle such issues when "you were in law enforcement Larry?"

We can take this a step further.
Lets take the active duty or reservist, that never left the U.S., yet supported the war effort in some capacity stateside, be it in intelligence anaylis, IT, logistics, training or Homeland Security for examples.
When this is all over, are they going to be ignored as a result of their geographic location?
Do you somehow find that "equitable?"

And yes, myself EXCLUDED, there are thousands of "previoulsy served" veterans that due to the lack of a piece of plastic, can't enjoy the "benefits"
they earned and deserve.

FWIW, I will continue to fight for the rights of "all" veterans, whether it regards discount offers, or "real" benefits.
There's not much we can do about the "real" benefits (government controlled) except write our representatives and support legislation.

Corporate America is a completely different ball of wax. Education and information will hopefully open their eyes, and allow them them to include those other groups as mentioned above.

For me, it's doubtful I'd ever avail myself of any of them.
Again, I have my own personal reasons for feeling this way.

I will admit, that in 1991, I was coming off active duty, and took advantage of a discount offered by GM.
With that and my trade in, I purchased for my wife, a Geo Prizm that she wanted.
And as soon as I figured out how to get my crutches in the back seat, and my braced leg in the front, we took it for a ride

So you see Larry, there's never been an interest in denying the troops anything. Despite your anaylsis of me, my entire focus has always been to expand those benefits to ALL deserving veterans.
I've purposely excluded myself for personal reasons.

OMG, Dr. Phil is at it again
You do realize, especially after Vietnam, the 1st GW, and again now, with all the returning vets out of work, that a large number of your law enforcement community is comprised of retired and "former" military personnel, don't you?
Let's see....we have National Law Enforcement Appreciation Week (not day) and A Memorial Day.
There's the Law Enforcement Memorial in DC, and there's always something going on locally "honoring" our law enforcement and emergency services personnel, especially, and unfortunatley, after one is killed or injured in the LOD, which seems to occur more frequently these days

So yea, we're "slighted"....

Carry on "TOP"

A Happy and safe Thanksgiving to all!

Justwannabeme

great thing about this DTR site is the free help for our truck issues, how to do stuff or a good deal from the online store with buying confidence.

i like to read different experiences from people in different areas geographically, employment, age, income and welcome anyone to post in a thread on subject! it is the good part of life in a media society.

I am former military, law enforcement, mediator,arbitrator and a gal but disagree with your overreaction to a simple opinion in a thread.

reading your post, might I suggest that putting people down is not a noble endeavor to elevate your opinion.

Thank you for your service, both in the protection of this great Country and the beat making a diffence in someone's life!! Please enjoy your success and continue to be a great grandad!

should you continue to attack the poster for an opinion (not playing nice) then GTFO! means please leave. with extra words.
then find another site to contaminate

cincydiesel

Well said maw.. Good thing I'm not an admin... Never mind, Lary kicked him to the curb..

Lary Ellis (Top)

I understand you purposely not responding to me....you much prefer to attack those you feel are easier targets My apparent relationship with shorts? I never spoke to her until yesterday, I just don't like Egotistical Egotist that hide behind their monitor and slam people just to garner a little self gratification.

I am glad you finally realize your mistake in attacking her as you did, it was completely out of line.


It doesn't take a Doctor to recognize the patterns of a small man sitting behind a keyboard pounding out hate with delusions of man hood. Your response to the lady was uncalled for and will not be tolerated on this forum.

No, allow me to help you OUT.

Take your hate and condescending attitude somewhere else, I expected a lot more out of someone that wore a uniform......but I realize that for some people that tote the badge, they feel themselves to be above the law and Society they are paid to protect. Not a new concept by any means, just one.

wyododge

Hey ma, would you help me negotiate my next contract?

Tough as nails... Sweet as honey!!! A guy would be blessed to have you in his corner. Look out if ya ain't!!

Hvytrkmech

I could help you with that as long as you dont mind dealing with a Union thug. For every teacher you see being coddled by the Union there are a dozen more just trying to do the right thing off the radar. You are highly intelligent and I would believe you capable to see both sides even if you don't like it. Respectfully stated.


As for the rest of this train wreck,

6 years at Ft Bragg NC, if my wife could not find it or did not want it at the BX then she went off base to the Kroger or Piggly Wiggly or Walmart or Kmart and got what she needed. She never left the Country only I did, and that was always a mission specific time line. Total of 8 years served, with the exception of treatment for injuries sustained while deployed I have never asked for, expected or believed I was owed anything for my service. I expect no discounts or handout because I served my Country, or now because I serve my City.

Honor in service, service without expectation, silent sacrifice,,,, the battle is within myself.

Justwannabeme

Tim, isn't nice to know that you are in a vast majority with the way you have extolled the silent virtues of Pride and selfless service/sacrifice.

thank you.

hopefully Off Duty is Off Dtr...

BNH4221

Three pages of rants and Tim sums it all up in one line.

Nicely done.

Steve