Hey all,

I'm sure there have been ample issues thoughout the volumes of threads on here over transmission problems especially with the 47RE 2nd gen. I have perused tons of volumes of solutions for the whole "hunt-shift" OD problem and all the associated electrical problems that exist which thereby have caused havoc in this area. In the beginning I too thought maybe that was the problem with this '99 cummins I have. After cleaning every possible ground, fixing all the ground issues, wrapping the alternator wires in foil, adding on a noise suppressor, replacing every solenoid in the valve body the issue still bares down on my very soul, I'm just about ready to swap in a manual tranny at this point.

Start 'er up shift into Reverse all is well. Shift into Drive and instantly dies as if the TC is locked up at idle. Now the weird part is I can get it rolling quickly shift into neutral while it's still rolling restart drop down into low or drive and she will take off, rolling coal sounds like she's in OD but will get moving and drive, doesn't sound like it's shifting at all just lugging along and moving. Stop signs are my nemesis along with stop lights or practically anything that might make a guy need to stop, a quick shift to neutral if you are on top of things will afford another launch from a stop.

It's an ATS aftermarket tranny if that makes a difference can't see how.

Something noticeable over the past couple months, there has been a slow draw on my batteries while the truck sits, and before that I had the OD hunt issue also, but after cleaning all the electrical and doing that it went away. I have heard that batteries that are not up to par can cause issues but mostly with the OD hunt problem.

I would greatly appreciate any help with this I am at my wits end thanks in advance.

Regards
Scott

 

I don't know about the ATS mods, but I think I remember that they did mod the trans so that you had 1st and 2nd gear lockup.
So maybe there is some lockup switch somewhere that causes your problem?
Is there a lockup relay in the PDC under the hood or is there a jumper wire? (If jumper wire simply try removing it for a quick test, should not lock up in any situation anymore)

 

No sir there is not a jumper wire, I did see that mod somewhere using a jumper and a switch to the Orange wire on the TCU. I actually removed the TC Relay and tried it out without any difference in symptoms. Checked continuity from the relay to the transmission plug and found I had continuity between the always hot side of the relay to the black/yellow striped wire which is supposed to be a ground. I put 12 volt power through and didn't get a signal, which I thought was strange, continuity without voltage dunno... I have it torn down again, gonna go through the valve body... again and see if there isn't a spool jammed up or something along those lines.

Thanks for the heads up!

 

If you have the wiring diagram just check if the lockup solenoid is getting power when it should not.
I think that the ATS valve body has hydraulic modifications that enable lockup in all forward gears. (Their website says so too)
So, if the solenoid is activated, voila lockup.
(I don't know if somebody added some type of external trans controller, like the "ATS CoPilot Torque Converter Lock-Up Controller", this and it's wiring could also be an issue)
I do not think it's the torque converter itself, because it has no way of knowing if the trans is in forward or reverse or neutral etc.
Another possibility would be a defective lockup solenoid.

Since the trans was done by ATS you could also call them, maybe they have some more ideas for troubleshooting this issue.

Your measurement of the orange to black/yellow:
If it's contact 87 of the trans control relay it should be red, this supplies voltage to the whole shebang like governor solenoid, lockup solenoid and 3-4 solenoid.
Those 3 get grounded by the PCM if needed. (Governor solenoid gets a duty cycle according to speed, other solenoids according to speed and TPS reading)
If you meant black/light-brown it should be sensor ground, and there should be no continuity.
Maybe the wiring loom insside the trans is messed up, or the loom from the PCM to the trans plug has a short somewhere.
To check for shorts, unplug both sides and measure for continuity between wires. there should be none.

(I looked at the wiring colors in a 2001 manual, too lazy to go for the 99)

Since you tried without the relay, you should have had reverse and first gear only, no lockup possible. (Still according to the 01 manual)- so maybe a sticking valve or defective solenoid, VB assembled incorrectly etc.

 

That makes perfect sense to me in that if it was the TC then it would stall out in reverse also and that has been where I stand through this whole thing. Another guy on Turbo diesel register forum keeps telling me if I unplug the transmission wire plug and it stops doing what it's doing then it's most likely a wiring issue, if it still acts up then it's the TC. I have mentioned several times that it runs in reverse all day without a hitch and he keeps saying the same thing.

I did call ATS and they want me to send the valve body in to them which I guess I can do but thought I would at least give it the 'ol college try and see what the heck I can do.

I haven't found any shorts yet, but there are some head scratchin' butt splices and wiring issues I am going to try and work out. Where would this aftermarket lockup coPilot controller be located?

 

The TDR guy is halfway right. Unplug the trans connector, and anything upstream in the wiring can not activate the solenoid. You should have reverse and first gear then, no lockup.

If it still acts up the same as with the connector, the VB or the lockup solenoid are bad.
If it stops acting up, you know that there is something powering the lockup solenoid when it should not.
Either something in the trans, or out- Apply +12V to the trans connector, everything else unplugged.(No ground wire!) If the TC locks up, it is grounded out like it should be from the PCM, the short is in the VB. (You could also measure the resistance to ground of hte pin for the lockup solenoid, there should be no continuity.)

 

Thanks AlpineRam, I will look into that, I did remove the plug from the tranny and the same thing is happening so from what you wrote I am going to assume there is something going on in the Valve body somewhere. I already replaced all the solenoids during the last tear down. Could be a stuck spool I suppose.

Thanks again for the heads up

 

OK, it seems like you are on the correct way.
I'd check the solenoids, especially the lockup solenoid, because even new ones can be bad.
(Or maybe something went wrong during installation)

Did you ask ATS how much they want for checking/fixing the VB?
Maybe it would be a good idea to have them pressure-check it for all functions so that you know it works properly.

 

Yeah, they want $600 for a new one they didn't really tell me how much to repair the old one, depends on what they find. Probably should just go ahead and do that I suppose. Would like to just find a stuck spool or something along those lines but probably just wishful thinking at this point.
Thanks much for walking me through this I appreciate your time.

 

You are welcome,

the thing about these VBs is that they can be a bit finicky.
If you have the factory repair manual and a good torque wrench you can do a lot of checks yourself. (I have fixed some temperamental VBs by simply torqueing them in the correct sequence and to the correct torque)
The "problem" with modified VBs is that there are some differences to stock. So, if you go in there take a lot of pictures and measurements, and organize your parts so that everything goes back where it belongs.
Personally I would try to fix this VB, and do a lot of air tests with it, including testing the solenoids with and without power.

 

Is there somewhere you might recommend that I might find a decent schematic of these VB's. At least to have a stock schematic would be better than nothing. I do have a manual on the truck but it's nominal with regard to specifics on the transmission.

 

One very good source is the factory service manual, all the torque values are in there.
A quick reference of parts names can be found at Sonnax
https://d2q1ebiag300ih.cloudfront.ne...=1600202209683

Sonnax also has some tech literature about the VB diagnostic and repair.

 

I will take a look thanks much AlpineRam.