All Ford 6.4 tailpipe flames discussion goes here
03-28-2007, 08:25 AM
#47
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03-28-2007, 08:43 AM
#48
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hahaha
once ford pulls an engine out of their hind end, they should sell a dodge+ford combo at the dealership so when the ford goes boom you can at least tow it home with the dodge! 
03-28-2007, 10:09 AM
#49
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"Its got a very good reputation in the boats."
My Norwegian friend is correct.
D6 is is available in I/O (up to 350) Inboard & IPS applications-up to 435BHP. 310 is turbo'd, the 370's are blown & turbo'd. The 435 is the same basic engine using a bigger turbo & aftercooler.
The 310 is available in a commercial rating, and I know of several Para-sail operators who will now never consider buying anything else.
But before I stray too far from the thread- I will add the D series engines have been put thru the proverbial mill before released. These were marine engines from the start-not marinized automotive engines.
I know I would do a complete 180 from my conventional (and current thinking) and go from not taking a Ford as a gift, to opening my wallet for the first one.
The bottom end is truly beefy, hydr self adjusting lifters add to the mild manners and less maintenence, and the electronics came from truck in the first place. It is bulletproof.
Does anyone else besides me find it boggeling that Ford could go from Hero to Zero in what is really a short amount of time?
Picking the wrong bed mates, changing in mid-stream, not seeming to have a fallback plans, not standing behind a product with their name on the grill, poor future prospects..the list just goes on & on. I really dont think a company can find a quicker way to go broke.
My Norwegian friend is correct.
D6 is is available in I/O (up to 350) Inboard & IPS applications-up to 435BHP. 310 is turbo'd, the 370's are blown & turbo'd. The 435 is the same basic engine using a bigger turbo & aftercooler.
The 310 is available in a commercial rating, and I know of several Para-sail operators who will now never consider buying anything else.
But before I stray too far from the thread- I will add the D series engines have been put thru the proverbial mill before released. These were marine engines from the start-not marinized automotive engines.
I know I would do a complete 180 from my conventional (and current thinking) and go from not taking a Ford as a gift, to opening my wallet for the first one.
The bottom end is truly beefy, hydr self adjusting lifters add to the mild manners and less maintenence, and the electronics came from truck in the first place. It is bulletproof.
Does anyone else besides me find it boggeling that Ford could go from Hero to Zero in what is really a short amount of time?
Picking the wrong bed mates, changing in mid-stream, not seeming to have a fallback plans, not standing behind a product with their name on the grill, poor future prospects..the list just goes on & on. I really dont think a company can find a quicker way to go broke.
03-28-2007, 10:43 AM
#51
If they develop in house, they had better get in tight with New Holland...at least they have some diesel experience to fall back on...or does New Holland source their diesel engines as well? This can only end up badly for Ford. Diesel is a different world from gas. Notice that DC used a well-proven engine from a diesel engine company, even the 6.7 has been in use for some time.
530 H.P, That thing is a BEAST!!!! 
Sounds like it is gonna suck a goose though the intake when the turbo spools and that thing comes under load. Unbelievable.
03-28-2007, 11:05 AM
#52
Chapter President
The Volvo D6 is nice, but its a heavy pig... close to 1200Lbs. And trying to make a marine engine meet 2010 emissions isn't going to be just programing.
Ford is toast... sorry about the punn....
Ford is toast... sorry about the punn....
03-28-2007, 11:12 AM
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Your forgetting the engine is in Marine trim. Lose the Heat exchanger, raw water pump, plumbing, as well as extra components that could take me considerable time to mention. And - its not a pig-
03-28-2007, 11:17 AM
#54
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I don't see why it would be so hard for any company to design a new diesel motor. It's not like they're making something that hasn't been made before and they already know what works and doesn't work.
Lets see ... motor that runs on diesel - Been done for years and years... Computer to control motor - Been done for years.... meet 2010 emissions - Already done by Cummins.
It seems to me, getting a new in house motor built won't be the problem. It's getting it built in time to make sure they get all bugs get worked out during testing.
Lets see ... motor that runs on diesel - Been done for years and years... Computer to control motor - Been done for years.... meet 2010 emissions - Already done by Cummins.
It seems to me, getting a new in house motor built won't be the problem. It's getting it built in time to make sure they get all bugs get worked out during testing.
I hope you are not really suggesting that Ford has lost millions, went to court, lost their reputation and may go bankrupt because they were unwilling to do something that you suggest is easy. Hardly. The current fleet of modern diesels represent the state of the art in diesel design. But the biggest problem for Ford is their philosophy. Or should I say their mantra. "Make it cheaper, make it cheaper". They have run themselves into the ground with a number of bad mistakes. They have ridden their reputation right over a cliff for short term gain. Too bad. And if it was so easy to fix they would have alredy done it instead of just making it worse.
Ford is going to have to get a serious clue about quality. Then produce reliable equipment that stands the test of time. And they will have to be competitive in the current horsepower war. That is NOT easy.
Wetspirit
03-28-2007, 11:25 AM
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I thought Ford owns Sterling. Maybe that's what international has their nickers in a twist over. Ford frame and axles, cummins engine, asin tranny and a Dodge Body. I will also throw out here that the Roman Candle problem may exist for any diesel with the new converters in them, even if it's a Bosch injector on the new 6.7 cummins were to stick open. That theory could be put to test by injecting oil in to a pyro port, should any of the new 6.7 owners be interested.
(not likely)
03-28-2007, 11:44 AM
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1309.5 lbs actually.
I thought Ford owns Sterling. Maybe that's what international has their nickers in a twist over. Ford frame and axles, cummins engine, asin tranny and a Dodge Body. I will also throw out here that the Roman Candle problem may exist for any diesel with the new converters in them, even if it's a Bosch injector on the new 6.7 cummins were to stick open. That theory could be put to test by injecting oil in to a pyro port, should any of the new 6.7 owners be interested. (not likely)
I thought Ford owns Sterling. Maybe that's what international has their nickers in a twist over. Ford frame and axles, cummins engine, asin tranny and a Dodge Body. I will also throw out here that the Roman Candle problem may exist for any diesel with the new converters in them, even if it's a Bosch injector on the new 6.7 cummins were to stick open. That theory could be put to test by injecting oil in to a pyro port, should any of the new 6.7 owners be interested.
(not likely)
03-28-2007, 12:06 PM
#58
Chapter President
Good points.. never considered what the "standard" trim was for the engine. But the specs only specified engine and no other attached accessories. Still, the CTD has been on a weight loss diet since its debut in 89.
03-28-2007, 12:19 PM
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Naw bud, you didn't step on my toes. When someones right they're right. We've had mostly IH equipment since 1947 when my granddad bought a Farmall H, we've had John Deere's on and off along the way. But all of that is true about IH they screwed up, and in 1984 lost it all but the trucks and engines. And I see that same story playing out for the Blue Oval as it did for the Red and Black back then.
Ed
Ed
and not brought out their new tractors the would have gone under. Not to mention Deere waited until what, the mid sixties to put a hydraulically actuated planetary reduced shift mechanism in their trans? Oh and guess who just now decided that a hydrostatic drive in larger tractors is actually useful? Deere! IH was testing hydros when they were designing the M for crying out loud.Yes the 560 diesel was a nightmare, but then look at the 301 combine diesel built later off the 282 block; 110 NA hp stock and they were extremely reliable.Look at the later versions of the same 5 speed rear end with some slight updates: they put them behind the D312 and had no issues with them in the 666 and 686.
Not to mention International was about to launch a completely new line of tractors at the time of the buyout. Guess what we still got to see them; they just weren't powered by the famed DT466 but instead an 8.3 cummins in the MAGNUM series tractors. Case IH was mainly IH tractors that were re-badged and re-powered by either cummins or Perkins with case tin. The funny part of it all was the fact that Case IH used IH's 18speed power-shift and it made JD scramble for their 19speed to say they had the leg up on them. Too bad the 19speed shifted like crap and the 18speed shifted like silk (and still does in the new McCormicks)
All I know is that I love making all the Deere boys in 5500# farm scratch their heads when I come out with a Farmall 400 and walk all over them without even lifting the front end (no weights at all on the tractor). I will always bleed red and our team will always find ways to get a red tractor into a class that no one will touch because there are too many Deeres...
Now, sorry for the long post and back to the topic at hand.....
Yes Ford did at one time have one heck of an inline six, so they do have experience with building a diesel engine. That means they can build a good strong engine, but they still have to meet those pesky emissions just like every body else. That being said I have to point out that it is the emissions systems on these trucks that are giving Ford troubles so we have to keep an eye on our own trucks because it could just as easily happen to a Dodge or Chevy/GMC....
Navistar still makes good products and is actually being trusted by our military to design the next generation of wheeled vehicles for our troops since the HMMWV is seriously outdated and underpowered. I also know that the Marine Corps trusts alot of their severe duty trucks for a variety of applications including fire trucks and ammo trucks on Camp Pendleton (I am former Infantry) and they are very pleased with performance/reliability. But, Ford IS a big part of Navistar's business and it will be a very painful divorce. The only hope of some refuge for the thousands of Navistar workers will be the thousands of additional workers that will be needed at Ford to make their new engine.
03-28-2007, 12:21 PM
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They are flip-flopping all over the place. Just 3-8-07 They made amends.
http://www.internationaldelivers.com...ail.asp?id=843
"Warrenville, IL (March 8, 2007) – Navistar International Corporation (OTC: NAVZ) announced today that it has entered into a consent injunction with Ford Motor company in which Navistar's operating company will continue shipping 6.4L Power Stroke® diesel engines and Ford will pay, without deductions, for each engine. "
They can't get out of this without going to court.
http://www.internationaldelivers.com...ail.asp?id=843
"Warrenville, IL (March 8, 2007) – Navistar International Corporation (OTC: NAVZ) announced today that it has entered into a consent injunction with Ford Motor company in which Navistar's operating company will continue shipping 6.4L Power Stroke® diesel engines and Ford will pay, without deductions, for each engine. "
They can't get out of this without going to court.