RobG

I posted here a week or two ago about problems with my 03 that have caused me to decide it has to go. I said I was looking at a number of 2nd gens, and now I'm down to figuring out if I should consider an ISB at all, or focus entirely on getting a 12v.

Whatever it is, it has to be a 2500 5sp or 6sp, 4wd, club cab or quad cab (if 98 or newer).

The problem on the 03, in a nutshell, is an electrical problem that has been sporatic and nearly impossible to diagnose due to too many different computers trying to interact.

I know the 12v has a single PCM that if it dies, most everything dies... so that's easy enough to find and fix. My concern is if the 24v has a bunch of different ones that could be a problem to find and fix if there's a failure someplace.

I'd like to have the option of finding a '99+ 6sp, but I want a truck I can work on and fix myself without having to rely on the dealer. I don't mind electronics, as long as it isn't a clusterf--k like the third gens.

I know the lift pump on the ISBs can be a problem, but they're not a big deal to replace. The VP44 on the other hand, can be a bit of a pain from what I've heard. Hmmm.

I guess my main question is this: Is there anything about the ISB that's of big enough concern to make me shy away from one?

It's gonna be a pain to find one anyway, because I've already called on ten manual transmission 2nd gens and every single one of 'em as "just sold." It's getting really frustrating.

Rob

TxDiesel007

ISB

equals vp44 electronic fuel pump, they can be problematic if they are not watched for fuel pressure. If you have a fuel pressure gauge, you can save your main pump by knowing when your lift pump has died. The VP44 can run for a while with a dead lift pump, but thats when you start to kill it..

If your fuel pressure is monitored, then u should enjoy an ISB..

Tx

Copenhagenjunkie

98-99 will likely have a 53 block and there is the killer dowel pin in late 12v early 24v.

Buckshotmckee

Other then what was mentioned about the Vp and Lp, thats about the only problems I've heard about with ISB.

roadranger

The ISB is easily bombed, with many enhancements available including injectors.

The VP-44 rebuilds offered today have something like 27 upgrades done to them from original. Replacements should last MUCH longer, as long as the lift pump feeds them well.

I think the VP-44 problem is blown way out of proportion. Many out there with 100K+ miles on original pumps. I wouldn't rule out the ISB.

RobG

My only worry about the VP44 is, as you said, miles. I can't afford one of these with "low" miles on it, so I'm looking for one with close to 200k. If it's on its original pump, then I better at $4k to the price. I know there are various "cures" to the LP problem, and I prepared to work with those.

What about the electronics? Is it one of thsoe multi-computer things like the 03 has? I hope not.

Rob

pmtg

why not another common rail, maybe one that isnt a lemon as it sounds like yours is/was?

roadranger

Yes, the VP-44 has it's own control circuits (computer) that the ECM computer talks to. It's the first generation of electronic control for the B model Cummins.
Drive by wire, so to speak- NO mechanical linkages between your foot and the engine.

Here's a page that explains VP-44 issues pretty good;

http://www.bluechipdiesel.com/VP44INFO.html

I don't think your costs would be any more than ~$2K to replace the VP and lift pump. Cumminsparts.com lists VP's for less than $1k- don't know how good they are...you tend to get what you pay for.

ratsun

____________________________

Hey Rob
The electronics are why I just sold my ISB?
Granted I may have had Mr Murphy riding shotgun with me more than most but...If the PCM on a 12v goes down at least your not walking. A good 12v in the 98 QC configuration is in high demand because words out that its the best configuation ( also the rarest )If you can get by with a club cab you can save a lot of money. Just my $.02

roadranger

pgilles - go to the 3rd gen engine forum and see how many 2003's and 2004's have lift pumps dying and dead CP-3 injection pumps because of that!
Seems the 3rd gens are no more reliable than the 2nd gens.

Or, for that matter, how many posts there are on 3rd gen failed injectors, some of them catastrophically burning holes thru pistons.
And, you can't get an aftermarket injector for the HPCR engine.

For buying a higher mileage truck, I don't think a 3rd gen is any better than a 2nd gen truck.
JMO

Mr. Jimmy

RobG,
I was in the same boat as you. I had an 03 that I had several problems with and finally got tired of fighting with the dealer and sold it. I found a 95 12 valve with 177K miles, had to do a few minor things to get it in the shape that I wanted but am much happier with it as I do all the work and don't have to argue with an idiot service manager to get anything fixed. The 12 valve is much simplier than the 24. I wish you luck in finding a manual tranny as I tried and finally settled for an auto after having the 6 speed in the 03.

TxDiesel007

Not true

i had a falty PCM and my truck still ran fine, except for the overcharging, now if the PC fries as a whole, then nothing works on it, I lost gauges, charging ability and more, but the truck would still run, and turn on..

Ratsun is right in this case, and as far as the third gens go, i have a friend with a 04 common rail cummins, AWESOME TRUCK, but he has lost both, the lift pump and the injector pump, at 27 and 38K miles, i just called and asked him about it right now...

Seems all trucks are problematic no matter what, there aint no such thing as a perfect truck without issues, but it sure helps that the 12V's have a better reputation than others...

Tx
Tx

pmtg

i was aware of the lift pumps but not the injection pumps. dont spend much time on that forum. i was under the assumption the CP3's are the bringing back the reputation the VP lost for the Cummins.

interesting and sad to hear...

i have a 1st gen for sale