Begle1

Well, I'm converting my truck come Hell or highwater; or a sudden decrease in Diesel prices. (In good news, I'll guarantee you that as soon as I convert my truck Diesel fuel will suddenly cost $1.67 a gallon. )

Anyways, I'd like a basic run-down on the filtration process that everybody is using, just to make sure I have an understanding of it.

The way I have it figured out so far is as follows: you pump the veggie oil through a 1/8 inch screen into a tank from the grease trap at the restaurant.
You let it sit in that tank until the water settles out, and then you strain the oil through a 10-ish micron and then a 2-ish micron prefilter before it goes into your tank. Once it is in your tank it is heated and flows through a heated 2 micron filter, and then through your Diesel fuel filter, and then into your injection pump.

Am I right or am I way off?

Subsequently, I'd like to know the best kind of fuel-system filter to buy. I have contacts with Racor directly, and probably their competing companies, so if I knew what filter would work good I could probably get one without the ridiculous markup charged by most conversion shops on the Internet. Hopefully.

I fail to see how Greasel charges $800 for a fuel filter...

Thanks for any help.

John Faughn

You asked for the best , I've been looking at this for some time and the best [ cheapist , no mods to truck , best for fuel system ]
Transesterfication - basicly use 2 chemicals to get the water and gliserin out , the only mod to truck is if your truck is about 94 and older and your going to run about 30% bio or more , you'll want to replace the rubber fuel hoses .
What your talking about will do damage at least in the long run , if not in short , becouse of a number of issues [ some of witch can be addressed but cost more and are just a little better ] ,
filtering in all cases needs to be done [ less in the 1st ] the method your talking about doesn't get much waster out [ not good ] and the gliserin has a number of issues , being in southern Cal. helps the geling issue but not the guming or coking issue's , there's a quality in tank heating system that helps but they recomend the dual fuel tank anyway , so you spend $1,000-2,000 and still have issues , were if you make your own and build your own prosser for as little as $300-500 and then you can make fuel that is good enough to get fed. certifide .
Heres a couple of site to check out.

.http://www.journeytoforever.org/biofuel_supply.html
Biofuels supplies and suppliers Journey to Forever

http://web.missouri.edu/~pavt0689/biofuel.html
Biodiesel-Biofuels Research



http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/groupee/forums
Biodiesel & SVO Forums - Powered by Groupee Community

http://www.astm.org/cgi-bin/SoftCart...html?E+mystore
ASTM International - Standards Worldwide

http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/f...s/default.shtm
Biodiesel.org - Fuel Fact Sheets

Begle1

I agree that bioDiesel is the better way to do things, but I've already more or less ruled it out because I don't have the space or time to do it, and I'd rather have something that I can potentially find and process on the road. I'm also convinced that SVO can be a performance adder if used correctly, and since nobody else has ever done that before, I figure that alone is worth the price of admission.

Getting the water out of the fuel is the biggest problem; it can be done effectively with just a barrel and a pump, but that's for stationary applications. As far as I know coking is due to running cold veggie or unfiltered veggie, which is why I'm trying to find the best filter to plug into my fuel lines.

Looking at what Greasel sells, they have a filter that costs $800, and the media out of it costs $40. What's the deal? There has to be something better/ cheaper to use, right?

On another note, does anybody know how veggie is affected by bigger injectors? I can imagine that veggie would clean POD's up pretty well?

John Faughn

Ah you want your cake and eat it too , I was looking into that also , I'm a fultime RVer so limited space and can be hard to do a settling tank .
The closest I came was a site that used some type of beads that acked like a catilist to both filter and remove some of the unwanted stuff , thinking that I could just pump through and go , had some ugly arguments on a good bio form [ above ] and am still looking for a way to get there from here , but at this time I do not want to go any other way but transester. method , so may not be able to, so at this point buying from retail is the only opption , and that doesn't work becouse I try not to by from gougers [ over charging ] .
It seems to me that no matter what you do , every body robs ya no matter what you want to buy , looking at many sites I see parts that I know I can get off the shelf and they combine a few and charge at least 10 times ,
Look at the retail bio fuel , every restrant owner I've talked to says that the outfit collects the grease for free and at best may pay 2-3 cents a gal. , then in a comercial prosser you can recover most to the methinaol , witch is the single biggest cost , then they turn around and charge more than dyno fuel . https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...0&forumid=110#
Rant

Baja

This is my set up. The oil is skanky enough, so I try to make it simple and convienient. If it is not that way, it becomes a hassle, and if it gets messy, you will hate it. I want to be a fly on the wall when you make your first spill, and you will make one. I bought a x-100 filter housing from Midwest filter. A bit expensive, but so far it has been more than worth it. Get the legs! I use a absolute 2M filter in it, again, a bit more, but worth it as it is a much better filter. To that I hooked up a cleaned 10 gallon tank from a hot water heater, with a stick-on heating pad on the bottom of it. All of this is mounted on a wheeled flat cart, 18"x24". I pull the cart from the corner, pour in the 10 gal. and plug in the heater. This heat is VERY important, otherwise the filter will clog very quickly. Once the tank is warm to the touch, I add compressed air, 10-15 psi to it. The air drives the oil through the filter and out into my waiting clean cubies. It takes about 2 minutes. I do not prefilter, not worth the extra time or extra step which increases the chance of a spill. I get hundreds of gallons from one filter anyway. From there, I put it in the truck. I can't get the truck close enough to pump the oil in, so I do it by hand, no real big deal.
I let my oil settle for a long time, about 1 month, minimum. This makes a big difference.
About water, and what I mean by water is emulsified water, water that will not settle out. The jury is still out, and it is a hotly contested issue. On the veg oil infopop site, they swear that it must be dried, others say it is not necessary. You need to decide which is OK with you. I do not dry my oil. However if there is free water in the bottom of my cubie, I ditch the whole cubie, I take no chances with that stuff.
For in truck filters, I use a Vormax, which is heated. I think that Raycor also makes a heated unit, which is probably fine. Getting a heated filter is important, otherwise it will clog. A word to the wise, when in doubt, add heat, can't get enough of it. I also have a vegatherm just before the lift pump, and will be adding a FPHE before the IP, which will eliminate the vegatherm. It took me a while to get the bugs out, but I am happy with my set up, and it works well. Good luck.

Begle1

So here's what you do:

1. You gather the oil and let it sit for a month.
2. You pour the oil into a heated 10 gallon tank.
3. You pressurize the tank to 15 PSI.
4. The oil from the 10 gallon tank flows through this thing.

http://www.midwestfilter.com/x100.html
4. The oil goes from the filter into a cubie.
5. (If emulsified water is to be removed, this is where it is. (Can anyone elaborate on this process?))
6. The oil goes into the truck.
7. The oil is ran through a Racor/ Vormax, then it goes to the injection pump.

If you wouldn't mind to elaborate a few things for me:
A. If you didn't let your oil sit for so long before you filtered it, how would the process be different?
B. How big is the X-100, and about how much does it cost?
C. What in the name of Mel Gibson is a cubie?
D. Do you know of how you're supposed to get emulsified water out? I've heard of a way using a steam emulsifier, but that sounded rather complex.
E. Do you run the veggie through the standard fuel filter before you put it into the injection pump?


Thank you very much. That was very helpful.

Baja

1-7, pretty much correct, except for 5. Most of the people who dry their oil do it in 55 gal drums. There are about as many processes as there are stars, so I won't go there, but look up "veg oil infopop" and you will read more than you want to know. I let the oil set that long because I can, and I find that in that time the crud forms a crust on the bottom of the cubie (we will get to that in a bit) and it makes it easier to pour without getting a lot of junk into the tank, which will then need to be filtered. I am in the process of setting up a system using 55 gal drums, but since it is not complete, I can't say much.
A. The process would not change. The unsettled oil would just clog the filter a bit sooner.
B. The widest part are the ears on the screw top @ 11", the barrel is 7". It is 35" high, including a pressure gauge on top. As I mentioned, they are not cheap, $225.00 for the housing, $75.00 for the legs. But as I said, the extra cost is very very worth it in ease and simplicity. The whole process is more hassle and much messier than what meets the eye, so there is no need to complicate things. You can be very successful doing it cheaper.
C. A "cubie" is the 5 gallon plastic jug that the oil comes in. The restaurants get the oil, use it, and then either empty the fryer into a drum in back, or back into the "cubie".
D. See my first paragraph. From my readings, getting the water out is a process that is complex. Since the jury is still out on the necessity of this process, I am not going there. If I remember correctly, talk to Greasel @greasel.com, and they say it is not necessary. Get on the infopop site, and they will go on and on about it. You choose.
E. The route. Veg tank in bed, vormax, electric pump, 6 port valve, electric pump, vegatherm, lift pump, standard fuel filter/ H2O separator, IP. I also loop my return back through the IP, not to the tank.
F. If you are close to Ventura, you are welcome to drop by.

graycenphil

Back to your original question about filters, your best bet is probably to buy a kit (from Greasecar, Frybrid, Neoteric, etc) which will include a heated filter.

I've been running my VW for 3 years and 65,000 miles on veggie oil and it works just great. Soon my Dodge will be on veggie too.

The filtering advice above is pretty much what I am doing. You can't overemphasize the importance of settling. I think sitting for a week removes more dirt and water than the filter. I use 55 gallon drums and household water filters.

And even if diesel prices drop, they'll probably never get down to zero. And it's nice not to be sending your money to Saudia Arabia.

akghound

You guys are making this way more complicated then you need to. The filtration process for oil from a restaurant can be quite simple. If you can, acquire the WVO in the original "Qubies", they are the 4.5 gallon plastic container it came in. This will eliminate most of you water problems right from the start. Do a pre-filter on the oil, roughly 10-20 micron to get the big food particles out. Heat to around 100 degrees (f) for a day then let cool over night. Drain the water rich oil and gunk from the bottom, (or pump the good stuff off the top). Re-filter the remainder to at least 10 micron (or less if you wish).
Once you have your heated WVO circuit in you truck all you have left to do is pour the oil in, allow the engine to come to operating temp while the WVO is also heating, switch over to WVO and make your run. Upon shutdown you need to purge the WVO out of the IP and injectors with Diesel.
Real easy stuff if you just keep it simple.
Get some pretty good plans here for a very simple filtration setup
Dana Linscott Plans
Forums on WVO Use
Frybrid Forum
Infopop forum
Ken Gardner

Baja

I am not too sure where my system is compex. I let the oil sit, heat it, filter it once, use it. If I could make it easier, I would. I am always open to suggestions.

No diss intended here, I have read many of your posts, and have a good respect for your knowledge.

akghound

I know, in fact you are among the few that seem to see just how easy running on WVO really is. You did a good job on explaining how to do it.
Keep up the good work

Also, this is a good thread to point out that the loss of my engine was a result of not changing the engine oil on schedule. I plugged the piston skirt oiler on #6 piston and scarred the cylinder wall. I also had a couple stuck lifters (tappets) which resulted in bent push rods and a bent valve. I believe this had nothing to do with the use of WVO, however I have read where some believe my engine was distroyed by WVO.
Ken Gardner

Baja

Sorry for the loss of the CTD. I hate it when that happens! I am very curious if you find any "damage" to the engine from the WVO once you tear deeper into it. I (we) have all read horror stories, but I have never heard of a report on a engine disassembled after running on WVO for some time. Please post or PM.