AJ2

Spark? with 12vdc? unless the poles touch,and under liquid?There is no inductive coil in this circuit until engine starts,in which the airmovement begins. Remember the bucket is ground,negative.
Now if this contraption was powered at all times, or outside "ignition" can you say BOMB? (Not so much explosive since not a pressure system
but maybe enough fumigation/cylinder pressure to blow a head gasket or more at startup,kinda' like too much ether)
Come to think of it, maybe two relays in series are in order.
Mine pulls ~4 amp fresh and after a run depending on water level 20+ and
my relay is rated 65A, but relays Do fail occasionally

This raises another question, what is the density of hydrogen compared to air? My fumigation hose terminates at the inlet of the AFE. Depending of if it is lighter or heavier than air one could position the fumigation hose accordingly.

More R&D needed before next model(MarkII) aj

clydeman

Hydrogen can embrittle some metals like iron. Basically an Iron atom is like a bowling ball and hydrogen's like a marble so the hydrogen has no problem penetrating the matrix of the iron. The main problem is that hydrogen will attack the grain boundaries of the iron causing it to become very brittle. Brittle is not what you want a cyclic stressed system like the engine to become. I have not followed any study to see what problems will affect engines but it is possible to ruin an engine if it gets embrittled.

Do a search on hydrogen embrittlement and see what pops up.

Basic chemistry is 2H2 + 02 = 2H2O So 2 molecules of Hydrogen to one molecule of Oxygen is the optimum reaction. Not sure what the best ratio once the other fuel/air mixtures are added.

Now to acetone: does it work in regular gas engines???

By the way, hello everyone. This is my first post. I hit quick reply earlier but nothing appeared to happen.

OIL guy: Are you talking about burning aluminum in water??? If so watch out, its a thermite reaction and it gets very HOT. The aluminum basically steals the Oxygen from the water molecule leaving the hydrogen molecules left.

As far as the density of hydrogen goes: It's the lightest atom/molecule known to man.

Tree DR

AJ When I mention boom it would be above water level in what air space is there. It doesn't take much volume to go boom. Pint or a Quart air space not that it would really damage anything with that but be aware. How are you encloseing your container and keeping the stainless seperated from the copper? No you don't want it running when your not useing it the hydrogen unit that is. It will drain your batteries. (How are you putting it in through the afc?) Yes hydrogen is much lighter than air if you had 1lb of air in your hands it would take 14x that volume to get a pound or hydrogen.

Clydeman, Good to see you here. Haven't heard anything about brittle. We are dealing with small amounts of hydrogen. Getting the hydrogen into the cylinder has been my biggest problem it's not hard to produce but it will excape it you have the slightest crack.

clydeman

Tree: Someone mentioned hydrogen corroding the engine in an earlier post. Hydrogen can, even in small amounts, react with the iron in the engine. Since the fuel, air, hydrogen and oxygen are all carried together then it may not affect things. Hydrogen will also bypass the piston rings but not sure there either whether it will affect the bottom end of the engine.

This is not trying to scare anyone but rather showing the potential for problems. There is probably studies out there on the subject.

Here's a link to Hydrogen Embrittlement: http://pesn.com/2005/11/18/9600204_H...ent_non-issue/

Oilguy

Hey Clydeman! and welcome to the forum... I like it when people start thinking creatively!
I don't think the Hydrogen Embrittlement is going to really be a problem unless you are running high volumes of H through the engine at higher compression instead of simply fumigating the airflow to the engine with H and o2.

And... Yes on the aluminum thing... Your aren't kidding about getting hot! hahaha... and the vapor will knock you azz out! I spent a while working out a variable reactor for the aluminum and I had a constant flame about 12" long that ran for about 6 hours. I designed it like a crude nuclear reactor so that when the temp went up it pulled the Alum rod out so that the reaction cooled but the production stay about the same.... big volume of Hydrogen is made with some sodium for a nice pale yellow flame with a blue core.

Oilguy

clydeman

Oilguy: Water has a hugh heat capacity. Just use a relatively large amount of water for your Al rod and the large body of water will act like a heat sink keeping the reaction cool. eg try a small rod for a 55 gallon drum. You might even circulate the water to keep it cool. Just some ideas.

Where does the sodium come in? You talking about elemental Na or something else like NaOH, NaCl, etc etc???

billg

I’ve seen salt being mentioned as a electrolyte. This is not the best thing to be using, as it will make Chlorine gas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorine . This will eat your anode rods and do nasty things to the body. DON’T breath this stuff. If your anode are disappearing there is a good chance you are making Chlorine gas. Thought I should say something here before someone gets hurt.

Tree DR

Don't use salt.. If any of you have noticed there is water vaper comming out with the hydro. I wouldn't want salt in my motor.
The oxygen is what is eating up the anodes as it breaks apart. Iron Oxide if you are using iron bolts is formed, rust. I have a lot of rusty bolts anyone want them? Stainless steel is the way to go unless you want platnum$$$.
I have mine up and running again but I think I'm still producing to much and is killing my mpg. More has got to be better! NOT

billg

Here is a site to check out. These guys have been at it a while. http://www.hydropowercar.com/content.php?content.6
Here is a little background info http://www.knowledgepublications.com/page2.htm. I haven't had a chance to check this out up close. I just recently found this. See what you think.

Oilguy

Clydeman >> I was mixing Lye and water and putting the Al in it. Pretty simple but very effective! I had a 2 liter bottle running as a bubbler to prevent a flash back from the torch end and the vapor got hot enough to reduce the botttle to a 20 oz to 1 liter sized bottle and eventually pushed water through the tube to put out the flame! I took it out side and left it to decide whether it was going to calm down or blow up. ... It caughed out most of the fluid and clamed down... I was hoping for some fireworks though... hahahaha

Oilguy

Tree DR

Thanks Billg that was very informative. I had seen the one about the dvd but not the other one. I think the proper amount of Hydrogen will be the biggest challenge. I'm wondering if my O4 is going to b harder to get working with the computer working against me possibly. AJ you seemed to be having some success. I wish my overhead average mpg was right 18+ all the time. Maybe that is where some people get those awsome MPG readings.

clydeman

Thermite reactions cause enough heat to crack water even if totally submerged. So a 55 gallon drum of water with a burning aluminum rod inserted should still produce the H2 you want. The rest of the 55 gallons of water would just be your heat sink to help keep things under control.

Not sure where the lye comes in.

Also, any of the pyrophoric metals ought to work. Titanium, aluminium, magnesium are the most common of these metals.

Also on another note: you can wire up the aluminum in an acid soulution as an anode and when it disolves you get power. It basically becomes a non rechargable battery. Better have a very cheap or free source of Al available.

Tree DR

First fuel up was 170mi 13.19mpg could be that I stuffed the tank overhead read 18.4ave. Second all hwy at 60-65 was 14mpg overhead 18.9ave. Those two were before I added the hydrogen unit.
Third fuel up with hydrogen added pulling 5000lb trailer around town 16.9 overhead 18.8ave. Fourth hwy at 70-80mph with head wind 15.9mpg overhead 16.7. #5 hwy at 60-65 with 2nd dooley bed on top of mine tail wind 15mph, 19mpg overhead 20.3ave. #6 hwy 55-65 some head wind 18.4mpg overhead 22ave.
The stailess steel light switches look like an easy way to build one of these units. Has anyone tried that yet? Billg mentioned the web site.

clydeman

That was a clever idea about the plate covers wired up +-+-+-. That video showed a lot of gas being formed. Would that kind of amperage draw cause a problem on the vehicle's electical system???

xmr

I have been folloewing this thread for a have gotten real interested in it. I went to the barber shop today and found an article in a recent Popular Science about a hjydrogen generator the size of a vcr that is being used in a Hummer to improve fuel mileage. It sounds like the exact same thing that TreeDR has developed. Just in a fancy package. This may well be the hyudrogen car of the future instead of some expensive fuel cell. I am going to get to work on one for me to try out. Who says all inventions have to come from big corporations.