Water Injection - Page 3 - Dodge Diesel - Diesel Truck Resource Forums


3rd Gen High Performance and Accessories (5.9L Only) Talk about Dodge/Cummins aftermarket products for third generation trucks here. Can include high-performance mods, or general accessories. THIS IS FOR THE 5.9L ONLY!
Sponsored By:
Sponsored By:

Water Injection

Reply
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-31-2009, 09:17 AM   #31  
Registered User
Thread Starter
 
Bswope's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: McConnellsburg, PA
Posts: 1,589
Anyone have any pic of where you put your nozzles?
Bswope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2009, 11:11 AM   #32  
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 1,018
Quote:
I've been looking at this set-up. I just do weekend towing, no sled-pulling or racing.

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/wat...mmins-207.html

Not a bad price, $420.
No, not a bad price, but it doesn't include a tank either...and a 6 gallon tank and some extra line, and you're looking more at mid $500s.

I'm convinced it's time for me to invest in a water injection kit, but have been going around and around on the possibilites.

So far, the ones I've looked at are:

Painless Coldshot
ATS Waterboy
Coolingmist Stg 3
Snow Performance MPG
Devil's Own
Scheids
Lazarsmith's kit

I may start a new thread on this for more attention, because I'm somewhat at a loss of what to do.

I've searched and read a ton of articles on multipe forums...with no clear direction.

Some say Snow is way overpriced for what you get, and others say it's the only one worth getting. Some say Snow, Coolingmist, and Devils own are starter level mickey mouse kits, and the ATS Waterboy is in a league all of its own. Then some say the ATS Waterboy is a cheap snow knock-off, that only pretends to be a real kit. Then, someone else sold there Coolingmist to get the Waterboy, and said they'd never use the Coolingmist again!

Can someone shed some light on the advantages and/or disadvantages of each kit? I'm not talking vendor bashing, because I'm sure that each kit is useful for the correct application...I'm just not clear on what correct applications are.

I know the Waterboy is a water only kit, and cannot be used with Methanol at all. Other kits (like devils own) can run up to a 50/50, and yet other kits can run full on meth if desired.

Some people say they would never touch methanol because there's too big of a chance to melt pistons, blow headgaskets, etc.

Then others say they wouldn't run anything but a meth/water mix, citing great benefits of chemical cooling, power, increased mileage, etc.

Then, what to do in the winter? It seems that you must either drain and disable the water injection system, or run some meth for freeze protection?

And, then the issue of atomization of the water...my opinion (which includes only reading, and no real life experience) concludes that the devils own nozzles may provide the best atomization. Thoughts? Has anyone "free flowed" there nozzles before installation to observe the atomized discharge?

Then some articles say that water injection is pointless if you still have the grid heaters in place, because the water will condense on the grid elements.

Then, I've read varying opinions on running a conditioner/anti-rust additive...some say not needed, and others say you better not ever run without it?

And, then...the issue of hobbs switch type controllers, or progressive controllers referenced to boost, egt, etc. Is there real efficiency in combustion to be gained by spraying small quantities progressively up to full on? Or is a simple 2 stage hobbs kit for mid range and all out sufficient?

Then, there's people who spray in the intake horn...and then others who say that doing this won't help cylinder 6 at all, and 5 only minimally...that you have to inject into the intake manifold on the head with 6 separate nozzles.

How do you adjust timing to compensate for water? I know that with meth, most people retard the timing some...what about with just water? Are there any hard numbers here?

I've found nozzles are sold in many different flow rates...and I know that you have to sray the right amount of water to correspond with your fueling rate, without quenching combustion. It would seem pretty simple to come up with a table that would give gallon/hour spray of water required for different hp levels (fuel consumption)...has anyone seen this? Any recommendations on what spray is optimal for 600 - 700 hp?

Obviously, I have a lot more questions than answers, but I've tried to read up on everything I can find...either there's not much detailed information out there, or I'm looking in all the wrong spots.

For as little as I know about it, it seems that it may be best to piece a kit together, using the best from each company to cater to your/my specific needs...

Can anyone shed some light here?
enafzige is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2009, 04:29 PM   #33  
Ace
Banned
 
Ace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,421
I've pretty much decided to go with the new Cooling mist progressive controller on the '07. It will occupy the last spot I have available to install a gauge. The Controller is the only real distinguishing factor. W/M is not all that complicated or ethereal of a modding subject. I wouldn't obsess over it too much. I will buy a custom-sized tank to fit under the toolbox and all the other bits, pump, line, nozzles, valve, etc. piecemeal. I think by shopping around for those other parts I can put it together that way for a little less than a kit and have exactly what I want.
Ace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2009, 05:18 PM   #34  
Registered User
Thread Starter
 
Bswope's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: McConnellsburg, PA
Posts: 1,589
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikmaze View Post
for lube and rust protection I was told this, or a similar product is what is needed : http://www.kleenflo.com/en/productpages/709.htm
What are some other products to run like this stuff Mike found?

Also I see guys saying they run washer fluid???? Im not interested in running any meth but a friend of mine is and was wondering what to use.
So is there a certain type he needs to use and what else can be used????
Bswope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2009, 09:04 PM   #35  
Ace
Banned
 
Ace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,421
What needs lubed and what do you think is going to rust?
Ace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2009, 10:10 PM   #36  
Registered User
 
Rpainter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: kearneysville wv
Posts: 1,572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace View Post
What needs lubed and what do you think is going to rust?
the inside of the head,valves,stems and seats. If you use water just before shutdown the water can cause the metal inside the head to rust overnight while you sleep. I use one bottle of anti rust from napa per tank. 7 gallons.
Rpainter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2009, 05:49 AM   #37  
Registered User
Thread Starter
 
Bswope's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: McConnellsburg, PA
Posts: 1,589
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rpainter View Post
the inside of the head,valves,stems and seats. If you use water just before shutdown the water can cause the metal inside the head to rust overnight while you sleep. I use one bottle of anti rust from napa per tank. 7 gallons.
Thanks Rob!!!!!!
Bswope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2009, 09:31 AM   #38  
Ace
Banned
 
Ace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rpainter View Post
t If you use water just before shutdown the water can cause the metal inside the head to rust overnight while you sleep.
I only "use water" between 17 and 30psi boost. I would be interested to know how anyone could, or why they would "use water" just before shutdown. I suppose maybe if you shut it down at the end of the 1/4 mile before making the turn off the track.

That would be very interesting - to know the theory behind how this particular myth got started. Guess I better hurry out to the garage and pull the head to see if my valves are rusted after two years an a hundred gallons of W/M running through my engine without this anti-rust protection.
Ace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2009, 11:29 AM   #39  
Registered User
 
Rpainter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: kearneysville wv
Posts: 1,572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace View Post
I only "use water" between 17 and 30psi boost. I would be interested to know how anyone could, or why they would "use water" just before shutdown. I suppose maybe if you shut it down at the end of the 1/4 mile before making the turn off the track.

That would be very interesting - to know the theory behind how this particular myth got started. Guess I better hurry out to the garage and pull the head to see if my valves are rusted after two years an a hundred gallons of W/M running through my engine without this anti-rust protection.
you should run the motor 5 minutes after water is off to " dry" the cylinder head. I can tell you my head had rust flaking inside it when I built my motor and John P 24v motor did the same thing.
Rpainter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2009, 11:31 AM   #40  
Ace
Banned
 
Ace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,421
Exactly where was the rust? Are you sure the rust you saw was not related to the water jacket?
Ace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2009, 11:34 AM   #41  
Registered User
 
Rpainter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: kearneysville wv
Posts: 1,572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace View Post
Exactly where was the rust? Are you sure the rust you saw was not related to the water jacket?
did not know the water jacket ran the entire length of the intake and around the valve stems.
Rpainter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2009, 11:40 AM   #42  
Ace
Banned
 
Ace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,421
Are you running a sled puller or drag truck that is basically spraying water more or less constantly? If you had rust in the combustion chamber or nearby it was likely because you are spraying too much too soon or you system is not properly set up or malfunctioning in some way. Not because you need an anti-rust additive to the water.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rpainter View Post
did not know the water jacket ran the entire length of the intake and around the valve stems.
Sounds like your nozzles are too far away from the manifold.
Ace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2009, 11:48 AM   #43  
Registered User
 
Rpainter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: kearneysville wv
Posts: 1,572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace View Post
Are you running a sled puller or drag truck that is basically spraying water more or less constantly? If you had rust in the combustion chamber or nearby it was likely because you are spraying too much too soon or you system is not properly set up or malfunctioning in some way. Not because you need an anti-rust additive to the water.
my truck is a driver but has a built motor in it. my system starts at 20 psi and is full on at 35 psi. with 200 hp injectors and a big single I have bent the needle on the egt gauge without water. with it on I see 1300 sled pulling. I am running 5 nozzles machined into the intake on the head not the horn. the logger told me when I had one on that all six cylinders was within 100 degrees of each other with water on. I think my system is properly installed and working well. I spray just under a quart of water in 300 foot with my system full on. I am NOT going to risk a $20,000 motor by not spending 2 bucks on a anti-rust when I have seen the rust flakes inside the head without anti-rust.
Rpainter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2009, 11:52 AM   #44  
Ace
Banned
 
Ace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rpainter View Post
I am running 5 nozzles machined into the intake on the head not the horn.... I spray just under a quart of water in 300 foot with my system full on. I.
Spraying a ton of water - not surprising then. Yeah this problem definitely applies to about 0.001% of the trucks on the road. Riiiiiight.

I think rust will be the least of your corrosion problems over time regardless of what brew you are putting in there if you keep running it like that.
Ace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2009, 11:55 AM   #45  
Ace
Banned
 
Ace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bswope View Post
Anyone have any pic of where you put your nozzles?
I'd like to see Rpainter's nozzle install, myself. The closer to the intake the better.....
Ace is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
pensacola fuel injection p7100 injection pump tommurray 12 Valve Engine and Drivetrain 5 02-23-2014 10:38 AM
Water/Meth Injection- Water Quality? jdpiii 3rd Gen High Performance and Accessories (5.9L Only) 8 06-19-2008 07:34 AM
Water Injection? iwannaram Performance and Accessories 2nd gen only 20 12-08-2002 10:57 PM
MOVED: Water Injection? Monty 12 Valve Engine and Drivetrain 0 12-07-2002 08:21 AM
Water Injection? 98rammer General Diesel Discussion 21 10-29-2002 07:22 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:43 AM.


© 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.