Perplexed with AFE PG7 - Your Thoughts?
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,681
Likes: 1
From: Moved.......now Sumter, SC
Perplexed with AFE PG7 - Your Thoughts?
Run something by ya. I recently installed an AFE Mega Cannon with PG7 filter. Upon initial installation and some testing, results were great. After about a week of running it, I pulled off the filter and checked my intake tube for signs of dust, etc. To my surprise, every bend in my intake tube was collecting dust. 
The install instructions said that the filter was pre-oiled and ready to go. I also noticed that on the inside of the filter, the filter fibers were not yellow, indicating the filter had not soaked up enough of the yellow AFE filter oil since the fibers obviously had no oil on them. I sprayed a little oil on the inside of the filter and let it soak it up until all of the fibers were a uniform yellow color. I figured I was good to go with filtration at this point.
I re-installed the filter and put a few miles on it. With little effort, I can now pull the filter minder all the way down to 60%. I checked the intake tube for dust and it was clean. So I have good filtration, but at the expense of good air flow.
When I was running the stock air box and stock filter, I could not pull the filter minder down more than 30% at WOT with fairly new filter. I'm not very happy with these results. In order to get this PG7 to filter adequately (in my mind), I'm getting less air than stock.
Anyone else experiencing the same results?
I'm thinking about trying a BHAF. There is plenty of room to get one hooked up, but I have no idea how I would go about protecting it from the elements with a shield of some sort. Any ideas?
The install instructions said that the filter was pre-oiled and ready to go. I also noticed that on the inside of the filter, the filter fibers were not yellow, indicating the filter had not soaked up enough of the yellow AFE filter oil since the fibers obviously had no oil on them. I sprayed a little oil on the inside of the filter and let it soak it up until all of the fibers were a uniform yellow color. I figured I was good to go with filtration at this point. I re-installed the filter and put a few miles on it. With little effort, I can now pull the filter minder all the way down to 60%. I checked the intake tube for dust and it was clean. So I have good filtration, but at the expense of good air flow.
When I was running the stock air box and stock filter, I could not pull the filter minder down more than 30% at WOT with fairly new filter. I'm not very happy with these results. In order to get this PG7 to filter adequately (in my mind), I'm getting less air than stock.
Anyone else experiencing the same results?I'm thinking about trying a BHAF. There is plenty of room to get one hooked up, but I have no idea how I would go about protecting it from the elements with a shield of some sort. Any ideas?
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,227
Likes: 50
From: Castle Rock, CO
There wass someone making a shield for the 2nd gens but don't know about the 3rd gens and sorry cant remember their name. Also you could try one of those covers for the bhaf (same type that they use on the afe's). I think Outerwears makes one that wil fit it or will make one for it if you can get them the dimensions. If I recall someone did get them the dimensions and they made some.
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
From: Washington
I just put one on my truck with an AFE pre-filter bag on it, I was wondering if that was overkill but maybe not... I will check the tubes later. I wondered also if a Pro-guard7 and pre-filter was as restrictive as stock? Anyone know? I don't have guages to check EGT's but it is hard to say if I even have a mileage improvement.
Banned
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
You don't have to cover to cover the BHAF. I ran mine for 30k+ miles without any problems. And that includes driving through water puddles really fast and driving through floods where the water was over the top of the tire.
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
From: Petaluma Ca
I am in the process of trying to design a shroud or can for a BHAF assembly. I work in a precision sheet metal shop so it should not be that hard. I just need to find out what is the biggest filter that will fit in that space and will it flow more than the stock filter. Wade
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 570
Likes: 0
From: South TX
Back in one of the earlier threads there was a guy that had pictures of a stock air box with a 4 inch hole cut in the bottom with a 4 inch 90 degree elbow that he could swivel in any direction. He mentioned that all his problems with the filter minder went away after the mod.
I'm thinking of the same setup as I purchased a Trueflow drop in foam air filter. An additional couple of mods that I am considering to his mod is flexible dryer hose from the elbow to the front of the grille for cool air. Add to that either an AFE prefilter or pantyhose over the added air inlet to cut down on water and dust ingestion into the air box. In your case snow could be a problem.
Used to live in Wasilla and really miss the winters and snow machine racing. Good luck. L8r.
I'm thinking of the same setup as I purchased a Trueflow drop in foam air filter. An additional couple of mods that I am considering to his mod is flexible dryer hose from the elbow to the front of the grille for cool air. Add to that either an AFE prefilter or pantyhose over the added air inlet to cut down on water and dust ingestion into the air box. In your case snow could be a problem.
Used to live in Wasilla and really miss the winters and snow machine racing. Good luck. L8r.
Trending Topics
Banned
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,268
Likes: 0
From: Nashvile Tennessee
PG 7 and dirt
AK Ram,
Something is wrong with this. Double check to see that there are no air leaks anywhere in the filter mounting to the box or box to intake tube, maybe a weld is broken or something. The PG7 filters stop dirt as well as a paper filter and only lose approx 10% of the flow of a 4 layer gauze filter that lets in so much dirt. Your post is really perplexing to me and I would appreciate you doing some checking around for any other potential leak areas. We have done oil smaple tests and NEVER seen what you did. See the info below, it's on a Duramax but the results would be the same on any light duty diesel:
Here's what Dan Montegari of Precision Diesel Services says about advanced FLOW engineering's Pro-GUARD 7 filter media:
HIGH FLOW AIR INTAKE SYSTEMS
WHO IS THE BEST & WHY!
We received many letters asking which high flow air intake system to use. We decided to test a number of manufacturers’ systems to determine which system was superior. We tested each system and found systems manufactured by AFE (Advanced Flow Engineering) were the best by far.
Diesel engines use seven times more air than gasoline engines of equivalent size so clean cool air is a must for extended engine life, better fuel economy and additional power. A higher flow of intake air coupled with a high flow exhaust system allows for more power, a better fuel economy, extended engine life and reduced exhaust temperatures. On the other hand ingested dirt through the air intake system becomes Silicon in the engine oil, which is a harsh cutting agent and can damage your engine quickly.
We tested three very popular systems. I will not mention the names of the other systems as a courtesy but I will explain what problems we found with them. We evaluated the systems by a number of criteria, filtration protection, flow, and design, easy of installation and cost. Almost in the beginning of the tests we realized in most instances a new intake system was necessary to achieve our goals. We needed a kit that used mostly outside air and not hot engine compartment air. We decided to use systems designed to use mostly outside air.
Two manufacturers claimed their systems delivered cleaner air at a higher flow but this was far from the truth. We did not believe any of the manufacturers’ claims and tested each system by operating the vehicle 3,000 miles and performing an engine oil analysis to determine Silicon levels in the engine oil. The vehicle we used has an engine oil analysis performed at every oil change so we had a Silicon number of three (3) to base our tests on.
The first manufacturer’s system was fairly easy to install but we had problems with the oil used to coat the filter also coated the Mass Air Flow Sensor causing a service engine lamp to come on. I called the manufacturer but they had no explanation as to why this should happen but they had this complaint before. Through the three thousand mile test I had to clean the sensor three times to stop the service engine lamp from coming on. When the oil analysis results came back, it was discouraging with Silicon levels at eleven (11). I almost could not believe the result so we changed the oil and filter and repeated the test. The results were almost the same eliminating this manufacturer quickly. I contacted the manufacturer to discuss the results and they were not helpful and basically said, “what you see is what you get”!
We installed the second manufacturer’s system again changing the engine oil and operating the vehicle for three thousand miles. The first problem we encountered was the service engine lamp coming on and I thought the oil they used was coating the sensor again. I removed the sensor and found some oil on it which I cleaned off and reinstalled the sensor. Within ten miles the lamp was on again. I removed the sensor but there was no coating of oil on it. I then placed our scan tool on the engine and quickly discovered the airflow rate was too high for the sensor. I then realized the manufacturer had moved the position of the sensor into a higher airflow and velocity position trying to squeak a little more power from their system. I continued the test having to deal with the service engine lamp throughout the test period. The engine oil analysis gave a Silicon reading of eight (8 and along with the engine lamp problem did not give the manufacturer high mark but I felt if I discussed the problems with them maybe we could overcome them. I placed four calls to the manufacturer and I am still waiting for a call back! This surely eliminated this manufacturer.
The third manufacturer we tested was AFE (Advanced Flow Engineering). We used their Magnum Force air intake system. We operated the vehicle for 3000 miles and when the oil analysis came back it was promising with a Silicon reading of five (5). While five was the best Silicon result we had, it was not good enough. I called AFE and was pleasantly surprised when I discovered they were truly concerned. I spoke with a Mr. Paul Hardley who suggested I try their Pro-Guard 7 media they were about to release. He explained the new Pro-Guard 7 media was five layers of progressively finer mesh medical grade cotton gauze with micro fibers that attract smaller and smaller particles as air passes through. Combined with the five layers of medical [gauze] media, there are two layers of non-woven synthetic polyester fabric with random porosity. The filter media is sandwiched between two layers of aluminum wire mesh. He agreed to send two Pro-Guard 7 filters for a new test. I installed the Pro-Guard 7 filter, changed the engine oil and operated the vehicle for three thousand miles. The engine oil analysis was excellent with a Silicon reading of below three (3). Finally we found an air intake system that gave us a higher flow rate and better filtration. The AFE Magnum Force air intake system is a well designed system, easily installed and uses about 90% outside air. The filter is cleanable and the oil used to coat the filter is patented because it is formulated not to affect the airflow sensor.
Another positive factor of the high flow system was the fuel economy increased about ½ MPG in mixed driving and 1 MPG during highway tests. The filter media used by AFE will not collapse if it gets wet or subject to high boost pressures. They also offer pre-filters for most of their applications for very dusty or dirty operating conditions. We carry a full line of AFE products with Pro-GUARD 7 media. If you order an AFE system from another source, make sure it has a Pro-GUARD 7 media.
A very important factor in this test was the manufacturer was willing to discuss problems with their products and help to overcome them. My hat is off to Paul Hardley and all the people at AFE!
Dan Montegari
President
Precision Diesel Services
Let me know?
Mark @ DPPI
Something is wrong with this. Double check to see that there are no air leaks anywhere in the filter mounting to the box or box to intake tube, maybe a weld is broken or something. The PG7 filters stop dirt as well as a paper filter and only lose approx 10% of the flow of a 4 layer gauze filter that lets in so much dirt. Your post is really perplexing to me and I would appreciate you doing some checking around for any other potential leak areas. We have done oil smaple tests and NEVER seen what you did. See the info below, it's on a Duramax but the results would be the same on any light duty diesel:
Here's what Dan Montegari of Precision Diesel Services says about advanced FLOW engineering's Pro-GUARD 7 filter media:
HIGH FLOW AIR INTAKE SYSTEMS
WHO IS THE BEST & WHY!
We received many letters asking which high flow air intake system to use. We decided to test a number of manufacturers’ systems to determine which system was superior. We tested each system and found systems manufactured by AFE (Advanced Flow Engineering) were the best by far.
Diesel engines use seven times more air than gasoline engines of equivalent size so clean cool air is a must for extended engine life, better fuel economy and additional power. A higher flow of intake air coupled with a high flow exhaust system allows for more power, a better fuel economy, extended engine life and reduced exhaust temperatures. On the other hand ingested dirt through the air intake system becomes Silicon in the engine oil, which is a harsh cutting agent and can damage your engine quickly.
We tested three very popular systems. I will not mention the names of the other systems as a courtesy but I will explain what problems we found with them. We evaluated the systems by a number of criteria, filtration protection, flow, and design, easy of installation and cost. Almost in the beginning of the tests we realized in most instances a new intake system was necessary to achieve our goals. We needed a kit that used mostly outside air and not hot engine compartment air. We decided to use systems designed to use mostly outside air.
Two manufacturers claimed their systems delivered cleaner air at a higher flow but this was far from the truth. We did not believe any of the manufacturers’ claims and tested each system by operating the vehicle 3,000 miles and performing an engine oil analysis to determine Silicon levels in the engine oil. The vehicle we used has an engine oil analysis performed at every oil change so we had a Silicon number of three (3) to base our tests on.
The first manufacturer’s system was fairly easy to install but we had problems with the oil used to coat the filter also coated the Mass Air Flow Sensor causing a service engine lamp to come on. I called the manufacturer but they had no explanation as to why this should happen but they had this complaint before. Through the three thousand mile test I had to clean the sensor three times to stop the service engine lamp from coming on. When the oil analysis results came back, it was discouraging with Silicon levels at eleven (11). I almost could not believe the result so we changed the oil and filter and repeated the test. The results were almost the same eliminating this manufacturer quickly. I contacted the manufacturer to discuss the results and they were not helpful and basically said, “what you see is what you get”!
We installed the second manufacturer’s system again changing the engine oil and operating the vehicle for three thousand miles. The first problem we encountered was the service engine lamp coming on and I thought the oil they used was coating the sensor again. I removed the sensor and found some oil on it which I cleaned off and reinstalled the sensor. Within ten miles the lamp was on again. I removed the sensor but there was no coating of oil on it. I then placed our scan tool on the engine and quickly discovered the airflow rate was too high for the sensor. I then realized the manufacturer had moved the position of the sensor into a higher airflow and velocity position trying to squeak a little more power from their system. I continued the test having to deal with the service engine lamp throughout the test period. The engine oil analysis gave a Silicon reading of eight (8 and along with the engine lamp problem did not give the manufacturer high mark but I felt if I discussed the problems with them maybe we could overcome them. I placed four calls to the manufacturer and I am still waiting for a call back! This surely eliminated this manufacturer.
The third manufacturer we tested was AFE (Advanced Flow Engineering). We used their Magnum Force air intake system. We operated the vehicle for 3000 miles and when the oil analysis came back it was promising with a Silicon reading of five (5). While five was the best Silicon result we had, it was not good enough. I called AFE and was pleasantly surprised when I discovered they were truly concerned. I spoke with a Mr. Paul Hardley who suggested I try their Pro-Guard 7 media they were about to release. He explained the new Pro-Guard 7 media was five layers of progressively finer mesh medical grade cotton gauze with micro fibers that attract smaller and smaller particles as air passes through. Combined with the five layers of medical [gauze] media, there are two layers of non-woven synthetic polyester fabric with random porosity. The filter media is sandwiched between two layers of aluminum wire mesh. He agreed to send two Pro-Guard 7 filters for a new test. I installed the Pro-Guard 7 filter, changed the engine oil and operated the vehicle for three thousand miles. The engine oil analysis was excellent with a Silicon reading of below three (3). Finally we found an air intake system that gave us a higher flow rate and better filtration. The AFE Magnum Force air intake system is a well designed system, easily installed and uses about 90% outside air. The filter is cleanable and the oil used to coat the filter is patented because it is formulated not to affect the airflow sensor.
Another positive factor of the high flow system was the fuel economy increased about ½ MPG in mixed driving and 1 MPG during highway tests. The filter media used by AFE will not collapse if it gets wet or subject to high boost pressures. They also offer pre-filters for most of their applications for very dusty or dirty operating conditions. We carry a full line of AFE products with Pro-GUARD 7 media. If you order an AFE system from another source, make sure it has a Pro-GUARD 7 media.
A very important factor in this test was the manufacturer was willing to discuss problems with their products and help to overcome them. My hat is off to Paul Hardley and all the people at AFE!
Dan Montegari
President
Precision Diesel Services
Let me know?
Mark @ DPPI
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,681
Likes: 1
From: Moved.......now Sumter, SC
I have checked everything and double checked everything. My filtration issues went away when I properly oiled the filter. I'm happy with that aspect now. My problem is lack of air flow. Now that the filter is properly oiled, I can pull the filter minder all the way down. I'm expecting better flow than this since I couldn't even pull the stock air box all the way down at WOT with a fairly new filter installed. Just curious if anyone else has had the same experience.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,681
Likes: 1
From: Moved.......now Sumter, SC
Originally posted by rubbert
what is a BHAF?
what is a BHAF?
Originally posted by blownaway
Hey Mark, I am going too far by putting a pre-filter over my PG-7? How much do they cut flow?
Hey Mark, I am going too far by putting a pre-filter over my PG-7? How much do they cut flow?
Originally posted by Tom488
I'm running a PG7 with the pre-filter on it, and I can hit my turbo's peak boost (40 psi) very quickly.
I'm running a PG7 with the pre-filter on it, and I can hit my turbo's peak boost (40 psi) very quickly.
Has anyone seen one of these up close by chance: http://shop.airflowonline.com/Mercha...ategory_Code=D These are Duralight filters (made by Donaldson) with a plastic shroud around it. I've never seen one in person and can't tell from the pictures if it is open on the end or not. There are also these: http://shop.airflowonline.com/Mercha...egory_Code=LDR with a 600+ cfm rating that looks like it would make a good start with a little backyard engineering. Thoughts?
