Cautionary Tale on Oil Change Required Message
11-07-2007, 08:12 AM
#46
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Exactly, I have never gotten all 12 quarts of new oil in. There's always 1/2 to 1 quart left when the dipstick reads full. Make sure you let it sit there too after you initially start it before checking the level, so all the oil can drain from the valvetrain.
If you look at the oil pan plug hole, the threads are cut into a "rolled up" portion of the pan, so the hole is not the lowest point and you end up with some left in there.
I would be very concerned if my OCM was requesting an oil change after only 1600 miles. Even 3500 miles with the message I'd be frustrated, but it is prolly on the normal side.
11-07-2007, 11:39 AM
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I was going to complain to the dealer about the oil change required warning, but seeing the results of the analysis, I guess not. I'll change the oil soon, reset the warning, and test again the next time it comes on. I'm really curious as to the accuracy of the oil change required warning as the engine ages.
11-07-2007, 12:28 PM
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Can someone tell me where the information is coming from as to what parameters the computer monitors to determine when to send you an "Oil Change Required" message? I see people saying now that it's based on a fuel in oil ratio of greater than 5%. Where is that info coming from? I would really like to read that in a manual or official document from either Dodge or Cummins
11-08-2007, 03:30 PM
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I have a 2007 6.7 and had the dealer change the oil at 1K just out of paranoia.
I now have 4K on the odometer and the readout is telling me that it is time to change the oil.
Not sure if I should have it changed or just wait until the normal interval of 7.5K?
I now have 4K on the odometer and the readout is telling me that it is time to change the oil.
Not sure if I should have it changed or just wait until the normal interval of 7.5K?
11-08-2007, 05:50 PM
#52
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According to my friend and diesel mechanic the ECM has about a dozen perimeters for oil change notification and coloration is not one of them. If you drive your truck like I do, mostly city driving the oil change interval is much shorter as the ash does not get burned like a loaded highway motor does. Like the men have said, oil is cheap insurance and a diesel does not seal like a gas motor. Most gas motors today seal in 3 to 5 k miles, a diesel takes at least 20k so blow bye and soot are high during break in.
Fred
Fred
11-09-2007, 02:38 PM
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Thats the problem, it's always " a friend of mine whose brother is a mechanic said". I'm not accepting that there is any validity to the "Change Oil" messages on the OHC being based on the real condition of the oil in that particular truck, until I read something officially published by either Dodge or Cummins.
Until now, all of the dealers I have personally talked to about this say these messages are generated in error, to ignore them, and to just change oil and the interval defined in the manual which is typically 7500 miles. A few of those that have gotten the "Change Oil " message and chose to ignore it have sent their oil out for analysis and the report comes back and confirms the oil is fine and does not need changed.
Until now, all of the dealers I have personally talked to about this say these messages are generated in error, to ignore them, and to just change oil and the interval defined in the manual which is typically 7500 miles. A few of those that have gotten the "Change Oil " message and chose to ignore it have sent their oil out for analysis and the report comes back and confirms the oil is fine and does not need changed.
11-10-2007, 03:53 PM
#54
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Kind of curios...i have an 07 dually 6.7l with about 17k miles on it and had the oil changed at the dealer yesterday.As soon as i got to about a mile from the service place the oil required message came on. I tried reseting the computer with a friend of mine,that's what he did on his when that happened. Firstevall,can you do a reset on the computer console.If yes,then what are the steps on doing it??
Any help is much appreciate it.
Any help is much appreciate it.
11-12-2007, 12:58 PM
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I've been told (haven't done it myself yet) that to reset the "Oil Change Required" message you turn the truck off. Then turn the ignition back on but without the engine running, push the gas pedal 3 times very quickly, then turn the key off. This all needs to be done pretty quickly.
11-13-2007, 10:44 AM
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Thats the problem, it's always " a friend of mine whose brother is a mechanic said". I'm not accepting that there is any validity to the "Change Oil" messages on the OHC being based on the real condition of the oil in that particular truck, until I read something officially published by either Dodge or Cummins.
Until now, all of the dealers I have personally talked to about this say these messages are generated in error, to ignore them, and to just change oil and the interval defined in the manual which is typically 7500 miles. A few of those that have gotten the "Change Oil " message and chose to ignore it have sent their oil out for analysis and the report comes back and confirms the oil is fine and does not need changed.
Until now, all of the dealers I have personally talked to about this say these messages are generated in error, to ignore them, and to just change oil and the interval defined in the manual which is typically 7500 miles. A few of those that have gotten the "Change Oil " message and chose to ignore it have sent their oil out for analysis and the report comes back and confirms the oil is fine and does not need changed.
What dealer told you to ignore the message? You should get that in writing, so when your short block bearings fail from excessive fuel dillution the dealer can step up and tell Chrysler that they told you not to change the oil
I would also challenge who the heck is "A few of those" who had their oil analyzed after they got the oil change request and found the fuel dilution was less than 5%?
11-13-2007, 12:51 PM
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The new "Oil Life remaining monitors" have been a godsend to service departments. It has done its job in convincing (scaring) motorists that they need to get an oil change A.S.A.P. These newer cars use an algorythm that takes into account the way you drive your vehicle. ie: short drives do not always allow for full engine warm up and is harder on oil as moisture has not been heated away. Long freeway drives are always easier on oil. These monitors will in turn calculate the approx oil change interval and let you know when to change your oil. Ya Right!
Older cars that ate twice as much fuel, drank twice as much oil,used leaded fuel, with poor factory machining, poorer quality metals and feeble crankcase ventilation systems. All this using old dino oil. Recommended oil changes of around 3000 miles. Old School vehicle = Old School thinking
Newer vehicles run so much cleaner, using unleaded fuel, tighter machining tolerances and much better closed p.c.v. systems can easily go 5000 - 10000 miles between oil changes. The problem is that your dealer and private auto repair shops (like the one I work at) want your vehicle to visit us more frequently than every 10,000 miles. Why.....because when your vehicle comes in more frequenty we get the opportunity to check to see if anything else is in need of service and/or replacement...........get it!
When the maint. required light would come on on an older car it was usually at a predetermined miles interval from it's last visit.....like 3750, or 5000 miles etc. Now with the oil life indicators it can be anytime from 2500 miles to 9000 miles or so. These oil life indicators seem to freek people out. I get calls from customers saying "I need my oil changed now...it says 0 life....Oh my god my engines gonna blow up today if I don't get into your shop A.S.A.P"
Yes, the manufacturers have done there job into freeking Joe public out and into changing their oil which will get their vehicle into the shop!
Like I tell my kids and my customers. The most important thing is making sure your vehicle has oil in it. Then comes the correct type and weight and then comes when is it dirty.
One last thing. It has always amazed me how people will usually get their oil changed just prior to a trip which is usually the easiest on oil. Rather than when they get back and subject it to the harsher daily stop and go driving. This of coarse is for a nontowing vehicle. Again we love those pretrip inspections on your vehicle!
Older cars that ate twice as much fuel, drank twice as much oil,used leaded fuel, with poor factory machining, poorer quality metals and feeble crankcase ventilation systems. All this using old dino oil. Recommended oil changes of around 3000 miles. Old School vehicle = Old School thinking
Newer vehicles run so much cleaner, using unleaded fuel, tighter machining tolerances and much better closed p.c.v. systems can easily go 5000 - 10000 miles between oil changes. The problem is that your dealer and private auto repair shops (like the one I work at) want your vehicle to visit us more frequently than every 10,000 miles. Why.....because when your vehicle comes in more frequenty we get the opportunity to check to see if anything else is in need of service and/or replacement...........get it!
When the maint. required light would come on on an older car it was usually at a predetermined miles interval from it's last visit.....like 3750, or 5000 miles etc. Now with the oil life indicators it can be anytime from 2500 miles to 9000 miles or so. These oil life indicators seem to freek people out. I get calls from customers saying "I need my oil changed now...it says 0 life....Oh my god my engines gonna blow up today if I don't get into your shop A.S.A.P"
Yes, the manufacturers have done there job into freeking Joe public out and into changing their oil which will get their vehicle into the shop!
Like I tell my kids and my customers. The most important thing is making sure your vehicle has oil in it. Then comes the correct type and weight and then comes when is it dirty.
One last thing. It has always amazed me how people will usually get their oil changed just prior to a trip which is usually the easiest on oil. Rather than when they get back and subject it to the harsher daily stop and go driving. This of coarse is for a nontowing vehicle. Again we love those pretrip inspections on your vehicle!
11-13-2007, 12:54 PM
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I thought it was exactly opposite?? I thought it was the CR trucks that turned black so fast???
11-13-2007, 03:09 PM
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Bigblock2stroke-Clearly you are entitled to your opinion.
I prefer to base my decisions on facts.
To date, I have not seen 1 official explanation from Dodge or Cummins explaining what parameters or criteria are montiored by the OHC that factor into to sending a "Change Oil Now" decision.
I have been told by 2 different dealers that the messages on the OHC are unreliable due to communication errors between the engine sensors and ECM. Look on this forum and read how many people have gotten messages to change their oil, they did it, then got the same message 75 miles later. Thats why the delaers told me to follow the recommended interval in the manual.
I have seen published oil analysis reports from various forum members that had their oil tested at various mileages above 5,000 and after they had received at least 1 OHC "Change Oil" message. All of the lab results indicated their oil was fine and perfectly safe to continue using for at least X,000 more miles. There was 1 test report that showed a fuel dilution of just under 5%, and the lab confirmed that was perfectly normal and OK, especially if he captured his oil sample without having driven the vehicle hard for 20 minutes or so first.
I prefer to base my decisions on facts.
To date, I have not seen 1 official explanation from Dodge or Cummins explaining what parameters or criteria are montiored by the OHC that factor into to sending a "Change Oil Now" decision.
I have been told by 2 different dealers that the messages on the OHC are unreliable due to communication errors between the engine sensors and ECM. Look on this forum and read how many people have gotten messages to change their oil, they did it, then got the same message 75 miles later. Thats why the delaers told me to follow the recommended interval in the manual.
I have seen published oil analysis reports from various forum members that had their oil tested at various mileages above 5,000 and after they had received at least 1 OHC "Change Oil" message. All of the lab results indicated their oil was fine and perfectly safe to continue using for at least X,000 more miles. There was 1 test report that showed a fuel dilution of just under 5%, and the lab confirmed that was perfectly normal and OK, especially if he captured his oil sample without having driven the vehicle hard for 20 minutes or so first.
11-13-2007, 10:18 PM
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More Oil Analysis Info
I had about 9000 kms on my truck before I went on a cross country trip this past summer. The truck already had two oil changes under its belt...one at 2000 or so kms and another at the 9000 km range. There was one oil change monitor alert but it only occurred at the 5000 km mark...because I forgot to reset it when I did the change at 2000 kms.
Now, on with the juicy stuff. The trip involved towing a fifth wheel weighing in at just over 10,000 lbs. The terrain was of all sorts, mountains, hills, prairies...you name it. The total trip was 8500 kms (5100 miles). And for kicks, virtually all highway miles were with the cruise control on and in drive. The oil monitor came on at 10,269 kms (6200 miles since the last change) which was after we got back home. The truck had 19,245 kms on it at that point. The analysis came back very nice. Iron 38, copper 12, tin 0, aluminum 13, silicon 11. Chromium, lead, nickel, silver, boron, sodium were either 0, 1 or 2. Fuel dilution less than 1%, soot 1.2% by weight, no antifreeze, tbn 4.54.
So, I changed the oil, put my trailer away and used the truck to communte to work. About 20 miles each way with about 6 miles in the city and the rest on the highway. 3500 kms and two months later, the oil monitor says "oil change required". I called the dealer. The service advisor said something to the effect of "I haven't ever heard of that before" and "I'll have the service manager call you about this." Well, that was last week...good thing I'm not holding my breath or changing my oil.
I'm with MtnTrucker on this one. Until someone can plug something into the computer and have it come back and say why the oil needs changing, I'm going to stick with the manual's recommended mileage/time intervals.
And by the way, I'm going by memory but isn't it something like 12,000 kms OR 3 months? I hear a lot of guys referring to the mileage but never the time. If you hit the time and not the mileage, it is still recommended that the oil be changed, eh!
Now, on with the juicy stuff. The trip involved towing a fifth wheel weighing in at just over 10,000 lbs. The terrain was of all sorts, mountains, hills, prairies...you name it. The total trip was 8500 kms (5100 miles). And for kicks, virtually all highway miles were with the cruise control on and in drive. The oil monitor came on at 10,269 kms (6200 miles since the last change) which was after we got back home. The truck had 19,245 kms on it at that point. The analysis came back very nice. Iron 38, copper 12, tin 0, aluminum 13, silicon 11. Chromium, lead, nickel, silver, boron, sodium were either 0, 1 or 2. Fuel dilution less than 1%, soot 1.2% by weight, no antifreeze, tbn 4.54.
So, I changed the oil, put my trailer away and used the truck to communte to work. About 20 miles each way with about 6 miles in the city and the rest on the highway. 3500 kms and two months later, the oil monitor says "oil change required". I called the dealer. The service advisor said something to the effect of "I haven't ever heard of that before" and "I'll have the service manager call you about this." Well, that was last week...good thing I'm not holding my breath or changing my oil.
I'm with MtnTrucker on this one. Until someone can plug something into the computer and have it come back and say why the oil needs changing, I'm going to stick with the manual's recommended mileage/time intervals.
And by the way, I'm going by memory but isn't it something like 12,000 kms OR 3 months? I hear a lot of guys referring to the mileage but never the time. If you hit the time and not the mileage, it is still recommended that the oil be changed, eh!