Not trying to interupt but, I would like to do this 366 spring in the future. After all these posts I read about no idle and troubles afterward, especially BK's, I THINK I MIGHT HAVE SOMEONE DO IT THAT IS QUALIFIED. Wow!

 

FWIW I think you have to re index the throttle after you put in a 3200 rpm spring....one notch counter clockwise. When I did mine I put right back like it was....no idle....turned one notch CC idled like a champ.

 

Don't let it scare you that much. I was a little nervous about tearing into the pump myself. I've taken apart a Stanadyne DB2 (Roosamaster) pump on a stand and saw plenty of VE's on the bench but had never had a pump open that was already on a motor. I bit the bullet and dove into it. It could help if you find someone who lives near you and who has done this before also.

Not entirely true. I indexed mine exactly how it came off. Fired up on the first try and idled slightly higher.

 

>>> PANIC ATTACK ALMOST OVER !!! <<<


I did the ratchet-strap trick with a little improvement.

I made a loop with a length of that orange plastic hay-bale string like is used on the BIG squares and looped this over the AFC housing, then hooked the ratchet-strap into that, thus I did not have to mar my newly painted pump with the metal hook.

I winched the pump marks back into alignment plus maybe the width of a knife-blade in the advanced direction.

I buttoned everything back up and hit the starter --- VEROOOOOMMMMMM!!! --- she jumped immediately into action, running like a Singer sewing machine, no clouds of eye-burning smoke, no popping and cutting-out, MUCH BETTER.


Now, instead of dieing 1/4" before touching the idle-screw, it is roaring away at about 1100-RPM.

I won't be able to sleep tonight if I don't, so I am going back out there and re-re-indexing the throttle back where it was in the first place and see what happens.

Stay tuned; more information as the story unfolds.

 

The 366 spring will make it idle a touch higher. If you've got room, I'd just back the idle screw out. But seeing as how you now have experience indexing the throttle shaft, it's worth a shot.

 

Another great thread. Glad things are working out properly for you BK!!

People please take note...this is why you should only do one "Upgrade" at a time!! If Bearkiller had added a bunch of pump mods it would have been a lot harder to try and diagnose his problem. Yes it will take you longer to get to your desired goal, and a bit more effort, but worth it IMHO....

 

I added a little emphasis to your statement.

The main reason the pump was entirely off and apart was for a general complete resealing.

I hesitated even putting in the 366 spring until the pump was back on the truck and everything checked out.

If I had have had a concrete floor under the truck, instead of #5 limestone, and a proper roof and walls, instead of an open-ended tarpaulin shelter, I for certain would have held off on the spring change until the pump was back up and running.

I preach the same thing all the time; only move one stone at a time and never change horses in the middle of the creek.

As it worked out, I had TWO issues working against me; the spring somehow causing the no-idle situation, and the pump itself somehow ending up retarded way out of time; whereas, had I left the spring alone, I would only have had one issue to puzzle out.



Since my last update, I went back out and set the throttle index back to it's original un-molested setting.

The engine would try to fire, but no go.

I pondered over trying to bring up the idle by adjusting the idle screw, but lack of anything that would loosen that lock-nut without removing both the boost-tube and the return line made me decide that, for now, the easiest thing was to just re-index the throttle back to the setting that yielded the 1100-RPM idle and live with it until I get me a wrench heated and bent.


Now I need a little fatherly advice from you experts.

When I get a wrench that will loosen that lock-nut, would it be in my best interest to just leave the throttle in the current too-high-idle position and just back off the idle screw; or, would I be better served to put the throttle back to it's original index and bring in an idle by running in the idle screw ??


Many many thanks to everyone.

 

Even an old slow possum like me gets a persimmon once in a while.

I figured out a neat little trick all by my lonesome to keep one from fighting with that main throttle-return spring and it causing stuff to fly off into the outer elements.

Before removing anything, I used needle-nose pliers to un-hook the spring and let it relax itself against the fire-wall end of the pump.

There is a little protusion cast on the pump-top that you can sort of tuck the end of the spring under, so that it doesn't climb up into the way.

Once all the various throttle gizmos are all dis-mounted from the throttle-shaft, hold the "hooked" end of the spring with the pliers to where you can attach a doubled loop of string into the hook.

Once the string is hooked on the spring, tuck the spring's end back out of the way.

The doubled string needs to be a couple feet long, after being doubled.

Route the string around the throttle tower in the same path that the spring should take.

Leave quite a bit of slack between the engine and the main fuel line, enough to get ahold of and pull the string.

Then, route the remaining length of the string past where the spring will hook onto the lever.

Tuck the string down out of the way.



When you are finished with whatever throttle doctoring you may have been doing and have re-assembled all the levers and such, first pull on the portion of string that you left between the fuel-line and engine.

When the spring's hook becomes visible between the fuel-line and lever, catch the hook on the point of a screw-driver, ice-pick, or the like.

Then, grasp the remaining end of the string and pull the spring's hook around and hook it onto the lever.

Remove the string and you are done.



It took fifteen-times as long to type it as it did to actually do it.


I hope this bit helps people in their endeavors.

 

While futilely attempting to loosen the idle-screw lock-nut and adjust the idle, I came upon a theory that I intend to test.

I wish I had of thought of this while the pump was clamped in the vise.


Seeing as how there is a lot better access to the idle-screw at the throttle-lever end of it, and in it's stock location it is nigh impossible to touch, let alone adjust, I intend to experiment with completely removing the screw and swapping it end-for-end, such that the slotted end is facing the throttle-lever.

I may also move the lock-nut to that end, or maybe even put the lock-nut in the area between the bosses, such that it locks against the inside of the forward boss.

I actually intend to devise a much easier means of locking the adjustment.

Maybe a loop of stout safety-wire through the end of the screw that gets zip-tied to something to secure adjustment.



Your thoughts on this please.

 

Although I didn't come up with this plan until I was about ready to install the pump, I intend to fabricate a purpose-built pump holding devise for when I next have a pump to work on.

This simple pump holder can be easily made of steel or aluminum, even wood if you are not a welder.

Assuming wood is the material at hand, before the pump is even removed from the engine, gather an approximately six-inch wide by foot-long piece of 3/4 plywood as the top beam of a TEE and about a six-inch long piece of 2x6 as the upright leg of the TEE.

Center the 2x6 3-inches from the end of the plywood.

Fasten/glue securely with long screws, such that the resulting object resembles a TEE with the upright leg off-center on the beam.



Three-inches from the other end of the plywood, and centered on it's width, using a hole-saw, jigsaw, hungry beaver, termites, whatever, cut a hole that matches the center-hole of the new pump gasket.

While you have the gasket layed on the plywood, also mark and drill three bolt-holes, one at each corner of the triangle.

Attach four angle-braces, two each side, to reinforce the joint.


Now, you can bolt the pump to the plywood, just as if it were mounted on the engine.



To work with the pump horizontal, chuck the other end of the plywood in the vise.


To work with the pump vertical, chuck the 2x6 in the vise.



Ingenious, even if I did think of it.



Besides holding the pump far more securely, having the pump attached to the holder, instead of clamped directly in a vise, will prevent marring the nice new paint-job you worked so hard to acheive.

 

I turned the idle screw around when I had the head off 2 years ago but left the jam nut behind the rear-most boss. Didn't make things any easier. I still use a hammer and punch to loosen the jam nut on the screw then reach in with a small pair of needle-nose pliers and turn the screw whichever direction it needs to go.

 

When I done my dads 2 years ago I too swapped it but I put the jam nut on the lever end and it was easier.

 

The only issue I can foresee with that is if you have the fuel screw run in far enough and need to bring the idle down, the nut may be in the way to bring the idle speed down enough. However, in some cases, even with the throttle control lever against the foremost boss, idle still may not be low enough and in that case, the throttle shaft needs to be re-indexed. Then maybe the jam nut in front would work out ok.

 

First, I want to thank EVERYONE for their advice, ideas, and input while I was getting my situation figured out.


I drove the truck today for the first time since the pump project.

It was not a good day for me to learn much about any improvements, as it poured a steady rain all day and traffic was heavier than usual.

I didn't get over 40-MPH all day.

The durn thing idling like a jet-airplane readying for takeoff didn't help either.


As for being able to tell if I had stopped all the leaks, the entire day was drip --- drip --- drip from the constant heavy rain, so I couldn't tell if it had have been pouring a leak.



In the wind-up last night, I ended up with the shaft indexed one spline/line contrary-clockwise and an 1100-RPM idle.

By the way, I learned that each of those stamped lines is equivalent to one spline on the shaft.

Lacking the time to come up with a better solution, I used a long slim punch to knock loose the idle-screw lock-nut; a task far easier said than done.

Using needle-nose pliers, I turned the idle down to between 825- and 850-RPM.

This left two threads poking through the boss and the fire-wall end about the same distance away from touching the return line.



Although this was not an ideal day to be checking something out, the engine is running better than ever.

It seems to have a real set-you-back-in-the-seat feel with the slightest throttle application.



One improvement really puzzles me.

For the last few weeks prior to this project, fuel-pressure had been rather low at 10- to 12-PSI, making me think that it was due for filter servicing.

Before, even at it's best, a steady 15- to 16-PSI was normal.

Without me touching a single filter, the fuel-pressure now easily bumps 17- to 18-PSI, seldom falling to 15-PSI.

Is it possible that the leaky seals were actually causing a drop in fuel-pressure ??


The engine had gotten to where it just did not feel as strong as it was capable of, nor did it have the maximum RPM that it once had, leading me to suspect that the plunger-springs were possibly broken.

When I got into the pump, I found the springs intact and un-broken; I put the new set in anyways, in case they were on the verge of breaking.



Could it be that the leaky seals caused a low case-pressure and thus the sluggish feeling and low maximum RPM??

 

The idea of a pressure loss through leaky seals seems likely to me. My idle screw is about the same as yours. Awfully close to the return line in the rear of the pump but not touching it. I have the fuel screw where I want it for now so I have no need to lower the idle. However, if I were to turn the fuel screw a bit more, I'd be tempted to re-index the throttle shaft and adjust the idle screw accordingly.

Glad you got it squared away and were able to take it out for a drive. Your statement about the "set-you-back-in-the-seat feel with the slightest throttle application" makes me wonder what my pile would feel like if and when I get a pump rebuild or replacement. I'm actually first in line for a certain, well-tuned 12mm pump from someone on here going to a p-pump. It'll only be a matter of time before he starts the swap. Maybe beginning of next year.