jbs007

What is the difference in the following injectors and how do you guys like them.

1. BD Performance Injectors (set of 6) Dodge 5.9L 1994-2002 - $379.05

2. PDR2210185-K Bosch 185 Performance Injectors $399.00

3. PDR2210POD-K Lucas "Prince of Darkness" Injectors $440.00

4. 50 HP Bully Dog Injectors Part #: 212875
Price/ea: 499.00

5. USdiesel parts
1991 - 1993 Factory Intercooled - Adds 40 HP 1040175 $450.00 $100 Core

XXX Injector Kit 6BTA 1991 - 1993 - Adds 50 HP 1040171 $479.00 $100 Core

6 TST (I assume these are the same ad POD)
Available now are the Lucas® injectors for 89-93 Ram diesels. The injectors will add 28HP and 56LB/FT TQ for the non-intercooled engines and will add 52HP and 104LB/FT TQ for the intercooled engines.

$500.00 for set of 6


Right now I am running a 18.5 cm housing and H1E compressor with a 16 cm housing on its way!!

Looking around I found these choices I am sure some are the same injectors but would like to find the best price.

Thanks,
Jim

wannadiesel

Best bang for the buck is POD's, but some guys have found them to be too hazy at idle. Others have no problems. The TST Lucas injectors are the same thing as the PDR injectors, AFAIK. The 185's are also known as Power Wagon or PW injectors. They seem to be a good, clean, economical setup. I think these are the same as #5 in your list. The BD, Bully Dog, and XXX I don't know anything about. I plan to get a set of POD's myself.

Bushy

There is alot of "branding" when it comes to nozzles....
The 185's/PW's etc are the stock nozzle in the earlier trucks so you don't see any improvement using them. My first set of injectors were a set of 185's from BD.
The Lucas (POD's as they are called by PDR) are a tested and balanced set (within 2bar of each other) they include the correct washers for the install and are of course fully warranteed. No core charge as these are brand new injectors in all cases. BTW, someone told me that the balancing is an important issue because Bosch spec, for example, can have as much as 14 bar difference. 1 bar = 14.7 psi. I have not confirmed that personally so take if for what it's worth.
If you are a bit pump happy then you'll have some haze at idle, sorry no way around it. If you go easy on the pump you can really minimize that to a great degree.

If you are getting a 16 housing you should be able to run the POD's and ease up on your pump settings a bit. That is always a good thing..
Now to be fair I am a bit biased toward the POD's/PDR because of all the support and help whether I am using their stuff or not...

Pastor Bob
Our Lady Of Acceleration Church...
Corner of: 1st and Floorit.

bigredbrick

What are the chances of someone developing an injector with the clean running of the PW and power approaching that of the POD - between slim and none?!

Brother Chris

Jbolt001

A couple of guys have DD3+s (Diesel Dynamics) that are putting out more HP than the PODs with no smoke at idle. (heaven if you ask me) but around $700.00 and it has been rumored that DD is not making any more. >

Jay

Bushy

I believe jbolt is correct regarding the "no more" issue.
I also think that a better overall injector could be R&D'd for our application... but..... the cost to do so, and then to produce in sufficient numbers to have even a modest markup is almost impossible.
We (1st gens) are a VERY limited/small market. Sorry, but that's just the truth.. we are also thought to be a bit... 'frugal'.. in our spending to boot...heck, I'm just cheap...but not easy.. ;D
So, there you have it....I'm constantly kicking one company in the shins to keep "doing" for us, and the guy runs like heck when he sees me coming now....
Good thing he's a bit chubby and has a bad knee.... ;D

Pastor Bob.

Bob Beauchaine

Pastor Bob
What early trucks had Bosch 185.s - I've yet to find them on any truck I've checked?

BD injectors are Bosch 185's. As for price check with Carl Degner he just got a set for under $300.00.

Bully Dog injectors are industrial injectors.

As for the rest someone elce will have to chime in here.

Bob

bigredbrick

If I remember correctly the PW's have 5 holes and the POD's have 4? The POD's tend to "dump" fuel in a pattern not conducive to clean burning and the PW's spray fuel in a pattern that results in cleaner burning, also less of it? Probably a feeble, gross oversymplification! So, what's the possibility of modifying, extrude honing, etc. some PW's to get more power with less smoke?

Preach it Pastor

Brother "brick" (as in "thick as a ...&quot

Alec

If I understand corrrectly how the injectors are assembled, (IF) it would be possible to buy a set of DDIII's and have a willing shop put the nozzles from them onto stock bodies -- or at least 185 bodies. Bob's and hdm48's injectors are built on 185 bodies. I believe that it is a difficult & time consuming process shimming the springs that control the pop off pressure of the injectors, but that the parts are all interchangeable . . .

Does anyone know if this is correct?

And whilst we are on the topic, I am surprised that we don't have (any?) more certified bosch guys in our group here -- do you have to take a blood-oath to run a pump repair shop?

Bushy

Bob....
It was explained to me that the original couple years of 1st Gens' injectors performed the "the same as" the 185's. I may be misspeaking by saying that they "had" 185's.
As I understand it, if you put the 185's in an early truck you get virtually no improvement, assuming no changes to fueling etc.
Which in part led to the cross use of the Lucas (POD's)
Also the Lucas nozzles have a slightly "wider" spray angle than an "original" Bosch injector in our application.
Because of the variation in the spray angle, we use a thinner sealing washer to lower the tip a bit. This results in the obvious .... the spray pattern doesn't have the distance to spread out as much...
Now this is only my attempt to interpret the situation using the Lucas.

If you look at the top of a piston, you'll see the very large and obvious "bowl" in the top. For those who've never seen one it is a large round cavity/depression in the piston top. It has in it's center, a dome, kinda like a mexican hat. (some of the other pistons like the marine ones have a very pointed pyramid type shape in the middle of the 'depression')
The fuel sprays downward, and most of it hits that dome. This in turn spreads and swirls the fuel cloud to aid in burning.
The wall of the combustion bowl (depression) is not straight up and square to the piston top... it rises up toward the piston top and then arches inward creating an "undercut" edge so to speak.
If you get the chance to look at a piston top in/out of an engine you'll see what looks like 4 OR 5 greyish half moon shapes around the bowl edge. This is were the fuel cloud is hitting the piston TOP. The rest is directed into the bowl.
If you look at a piston with an injector that has a spray pattern a bit too wide, you'll see that half moon pattern is bigger AND there will be alot of dark soot around the edges of that greyish half moon shape.
If you ever get the chance to stick your fingers on a piston top, feel along the edge of the piston bowls' top surface and underneath slightly as well. You'll find it is still smooth OR it is pitted. This is a sign of excess heat. In some cases you'll even visibly see the pitting kind of like cavitation of the piston top too.
Since the Lucas are a wider spray angle AND they are a large SAC type injector they can have some of the fuel charge (usually at the tail end of the injection cycle) that is a bit coarse. Some of the early POD's had an occasional "dribbler" in the set. This is what partially contributes to haze at idle.
That resulted in every single injector (which is brand new) being pop tested AND balanced to within 2 bar max variation. BTW that cost comes out of the original retail price and is not added and passed on to you and me...
This helps provide some extra uniformity to the spray cloud and pattern.
Since these are brand new nozzles and are not a "special run" of injectors or tips specifically for performance applications, the cost is modest in terms of the cost for some custom EDM'd or Extrude Honed tips.
I have seen and nascar mark has actually run a set of monster Lucas in his own truck.... It kind of reminds me of the horizon 10 minutes after a thermonuclear blast...
nasty :-[

Well there you have it, straight from fingers doing 80 and a brain doing 40..... make some allowance for lack of knowledge in the explanation dept. if there are mistakes...

Pastor Bob...... next weeks sermon will be: 'love thy Dodge and how to burn the other cheek'....

Jbolt001

[quote author=asilitch link=board=9;threadid=18319;start=0#msg173171 date=1061008916]

-- do you have to take a blood-oath to run a pump repair shop?

[/quote]

well no..... but I believe to be certified by Bosch you have to wear a latex thong two sizes too small. Hence the tight lips, angry stare and funny walk.........

Bob- when are you going to do "thou shall not covet thy neighbors CTD" .....a prersonal favorite

Oh BTW have you actually seen the horizon 10 minutes after a thermonuclear blast? That wouls explain a few things. :P ;D

Jay

Bob Beauchaine

As far as the DD3+'s go I posted a request for those that would spend the $700.00 for a set and got no responces. When I last talked to Lenny he said that DD might build a set for $1100 or $1200. I guess it all depends on what you are will to spend.

Bob