Buzz

My turn! (I thought I'd start a new thread so it wouldn't get buried.) Okay, here's my question. How much more load can I carry due to larger tires and camper package, both manufacturer installed?

The sticker on my door says my front axle GAWR is 4410 with LT245R75/16E tires. And rear GAWR is 6084 with same tires. My truck came from the manufacturer with LT265R75/16E tires.

My owners manual cites 20,000 as GCVWR and max. towing capacity 13,650. Am I correct in assuming my truck weighs about 6,350? That's the difference between GCVWR and max. towing capacity. By the way, the owners manual states these figures are including a driver of 150 lbs. Right! I haven't weighed 150 since 10th grade!

So the final question is: How much weight can I put on each axle and how much (if any) can I go over the 20,000 GCVWR?

I've got to get my truck weighed with and without the 5er. I'm also going to add a 70 gal. aux. fuel tank which will add to the equation.
Thanks for your input. Buzz

Srigs

No 265 don't mean more towing power but may be less due to potentially lower weight rating may not equal if they are D rated vs E rated.

Your truck weight is generally much higher than what you calculated. Mine below is @ 7300 lbs much higher than a stock non extended cab and short box.

When I bought my truck used they came with 265s and stock was 245s. This made my 3.55 rear end be actually @3.42 due to the larger tires. I changed them out and improved my low end power and now my auto works as it should. With a 4.1 rear end it would not be as big a deal. Just keep that in mind.

If you have 3.55s, I would get 245s to help you overall ratio and it will drop the height of you truck by @1 inch which helps with 5ers or gooseneck trailers. Hope this helps. Srigs

Buzz

[quote author=Srigs link=board=11;threadid=19620;start=0#msg184147 date=1063424530]
No 265 don't mean more towing power but may be less due to potentially lower weight rating may not equal if they are D rated vs E rated.[/quote]

I guess you didn't notice that my 265's are E rated also. I didn't ask about towing power. I'm concerned with weight issues. I've got the power....it pulls fine. Also, I could care less if my truck is one inch lower...it's not worth buying a set of tires. My 6 speed can yank it fine. I guess the auto's have diifferent issues and need all the help they can get. ;D

thecatsfan

[quote author=Buzz link=board=11;threadid=19620;start=0#msg184141 date=1063422717]How much more load can I carry due to larger tires and camper package, both manufacturer installed?
[/quote]

Unfortunately, the answer is, you can't carry any more than the same truck without the larger tires and camper package. These items do not increase rated GVWR or GCWR.

The camper package improves handling with a camper in the bed, but that's all. It does not change the axle rating, the brake rating, the transmission rating, and so on, and so on.

As far as tires go, as long as the actual weight rating on the rear tires are equal to or greater than the RAWR, then the tires are sufficient - on paper at least. But wider or larger tires are rarely rated higher than a slightly narrower or smaller tire (265/75 vs 245/75). And you have to look at the actual lb. per tire rating - not just the number of plys (indicated by the letter D or E). The bottom line is, higher rated tires will not increase the RAWR, but lower rated tires will reduce it.

If your truck is a 4x2, then your curb and trailer weight figures are pretty cloase to what Dodge advertised for that truck. If it's a 4x4, curb weight is about 400 lbs. higher, and trailer rating is about 400 lbs. lower. Of course these figures are for a bone stock truck with no cargo or extra equipment of any kind.

The fact that many people don't like is there is nothing you can do to change the manufacturer's weight rating of a truck. DC is not going to tell you what components were primary determining factors for these limits. The tranny, brakes, frame, axles, driveline components, steering, and suspension are all considered when determining these ratings. Replacing one of these items doesn't change the functional limits of all the others.

Your GVWR is 8,800 lbs. and your GCWR is 20,000 lbs. The only thing that will change that is trading the truck for a 3500.

Sure! Lots of people tow or haul over their weight limits, but is it wise? Considering that in some states it is illegal, along with the potential liability and the possibility of being denied insurance coverage in the event of an accident, I sure don't think so.

Anyway, just trying to give what I consider an honest answer. I am putting away the soap box now.

Bill1374

Buzz,

Your truck weight is just about right if its a 2 wd. My 95 with me (over 150) plus hitch and 1/2 tank fuel runs 6500 on the scales.
The issue with weights is the rated weight from Chrysler. 265s and camper package do not change the rated carrying capacity over the 8800/20k figures. To the best of my knowledge, these are not enforcable limits exect maybe with warranty issues. Axle weights and gross weights are set in state laws and are considerably higher that that. You can, however be ticketed for running over your registered weight.

Bill

thecatsfan

Bill is right that enforcement on weight ratings is questionable.

I don't claim any specific expertise, but here is my take on it.

• Rarely is any weight limit enforced or even checked unless you tow or haul commercially.
• Weight laws can vary greatly from state to state. Some states will ticket you for being over your registered weight. (This is a tax revenue issue in my opinion.)
• The most important weight limits to watch are your axle limits and tire limits.
• GCWR is not stated on the truck so it typically cannot be enforced.
• GVWR, FAWR, and RAWR are posted on the truck, so these limits typically can be enforced.
• Warranty is probably the lowest concern with weight limits. DC cannot void your warranty for exceeding these limits without explicit proof, and you are under no legal obligation to provide them with information about your trailer weight. The only way they would ever know the weight of your trailer is if you voluntarily told them.
• Insurance companies pretty much have the right to make their own rules about weight limits as long as they are stated in the policy. They can choose to use any or all of these limits as reason to refuse a claim and leave you liable for any accident you are involved in if you are over any of these limits.

Weight limits are a gray area and can be a touchy subject. There is little or no available documentation to tell you what is legal, and where, if you are not hauling commercially. I have no documentation to validate any of this information, so take it all with a grain of salt. These are just the common opinions I've gathered from talking with other RVers, from commercial haulers I know, and from numerous discussions on forums including this one.

y-knot

Really the bottom line is you are stuck with whatever the truck has posted of the manufactures id tag. It doesn't matter what you have done to it, or what you paid the dealer, or anyone else to do to it. If you would like to haul or tow more, and do so then the limits of the law, you will have to get a larger truck. Now ofcoarse, you can do what you will, but you are putting others, no just you but your family, at a considerable finnancial risk (I.E. law suits). See the reason we have laws is so issuse like this are clear, and writen in black and white. other wise you might think your truck is good for 23k lbs, and the next might say 24klb. Nope, the law does by what the manfacturer states, and I think thats probally best.

doug

arguably the most interesting parts of this whole thing is the meaning of GVWR and payload capacity in the context of a 5ver hitch weight. So you take GVWR minus curb weight and you have payload capacity. Subtract passenger weights and what's left over is what you can put in the bed.

Suppose you end up with a 1500 pound limit for the bed. rocks, sod, portland cement, gold, whatever. GVWR is entirely understandable in this context -- The truck is bearing fully 100% of all mechanical consequences from the weight in the truck, from suspension stress (fore-aft, not just vertial), side-to-side sway, stopping dynamics including brakes, shocks, tires, acceleration stresses (weight thrown back towards the rear), etc., etc.,

now empty the bed of your 1500 lbs of cargo and instead, put a 1500 pin weight 5ver (including the hitch itself). In this case the truck is NO LONGER bearing all the mechanical consequences of the weight in the bed. the sway forces are less, acceleration forces are less (they are directly applied to frame instead of the bed), the trailer has its own brakes and can stop itself, etc., etc.,

and yet we are compelled, via DC marketing numbers, to govern the hitch pin weight to the same constraints as freestanding loose payload in the bed. I just don't get it. Ford at least as a "5th wheel towing" rating that is different -- it doens't give much margin over TT towing but at least they break it out -- its a step in the right direction. Its just too bad that the weight ratings themselves allow for an arguably more dangerous dead/loose payload, and gives no recognition for the comparitively well controlled weight in the back via the hitch pin.

Its time DC woke up to the marketing value of "5th wheel towing" and produced some numbers that would be more realistic to the job.

Buzz

Thanks for all the input. Unfortunately, there are many who read a post and stray from the subject matter. They think the person asking the question, and perhaps other people, are more interested in what they have to say about something totally unrelated to the original question...NOT! It's either that or they can't remember what they just read and start rambling aimlessly about their favorite subject. In any case, it's pretty annoying and unneccessary.

DieselDaze

Posts often wander around a bit with out ever directly addressing the topic... this is true.
Everyone has the right to voice an opinion or state a comment in good humor as long as the post stays within the site rules.
However, respect needs to travel both ways. Respect the owner of the post and the topic originally posted and respect all the comments, opinions and ideas in reply.

Now, back to the subject. ;D

Rich

thecatsfan

Buzz,

I tried to offer a direct answer your question. If any of my responses seem unrelated, then perhaps I misunderstood the question.

Just FYI, any time you ask a towing question, you are dealing with a broad subject. The only reason I brought up weight rating limits was to place my response in the context intended. I don't consider exceeding manufacturer's limits safe, so I will never provide an answer that implies this. If you don't care about those limits - which is your right - then this allows you to discount my comments as such.

My answer still remainss that the camper package and larger tires do nothing to increase the load capacity of the truck.

Buzz

[quote author=thecatsfan link=board=11;threadid=19620;start=0#msg185740 date=1063772224]
Buzz,

I tried to offer a direct answer your question. If any of my responses seem unrelated, then perhaps I misunderstood the question.

Just FYI, any time you ask a towing question, you are dealing with a broad subject. The only reason I brought up weight rating limits was to place my response in the context intended. I don't consider exceeding manufacturer's limits safe, so I will never provide an answer that implies this. If you don't care about those limits - which is your right - then this allows you to discount my comments as such.

My answer still remainss that the camper package and larger tires do nothing to increase the load capacity of the truck.
[/quote]

No sweat. I appreciate your response. I wasn't refering to your post. There were other posts on other topics I posted that really went awry. But there's no sense in beating a dead horse. Time to move on. ;D

y-knot

I don't know if my post upset you or not? If it did that realy was not my intension. I live by one of the worst sections of interstate in the country for both motor vehicle accidents, and trailer related accidents, I-75. There are more people killed here then anywhere elese in the country, and most deadly time is 11:00am to 1:00 pm. I have seen way to meany familys suffer both for there own ignorance, and for that of others. I think most people are well informed, the rest fall into two groups. Those that are new to pulling trailers, and do not have the experience. And those that pull them and do not follow basic rules or don't care. It's my hope that formums like we have here, will hopefully teach (share) experiences with the new to the sport, and those who might need a little help. If anything I or anyone else can say that might prevent a accident, unfortunate insident, near miss, or loss of property or life, then we have made a change for the better. Thank you, good luck.

Rattletrap1

The axle will handle it. It's the same basic housing as a dually which is rated for about 8k#. You'll notice that the rear axle weight on the sticker is exactly 3042 (tire rating) X 2 tires. The tires are the limiting factor. 265/75 E's will go 3415 each or 6830 per pair. At this weight you will likely sag tho and airbags, hellwigs, etc. would be advised.

I just bought my dually, but I had an '83 F250 for 12 years that consistently went to 11,000# while rated for 8600# It got goosy over 65 mph and bordering on unsafe. Was an experience driving it and not one I'd hand over to just anyone. I was NEVER asked to get it weighed and I've been all over the western states and Canada. If it doesn't look all saggy I'd bet you'll never have any probs with the coppers. I did have airbags and was only complimented on it's appearance to handle the weight. I have NEVER seen or heard first hand of someone getting a ticket on a private vehicle for overweight and have never seen a LAW that restricts you to mfg's GVW.

A special note tho: tires are rated with about a 10% safety factor. This is new only tho. As the tire degrades (which happens as soon as it hits light and filled with air), the weight capacity diminishes over time. I routinely replaced tires at 2 years, worn or not. I've had several start to come apart before I got the 265's ( relatively new size on the market).

thecatsfan

Thanks Buzz!