well i should finally get off my butt here in the next month or so and put on the twins. if it hit 550 i will be pleased, but 600 would make my day. atleast for a couple of months. if i ever get this 5600 put in.

 

you guys need to get out more, I've been watching 1000 hp and 6000 rpm for years now

 

I think he said " Dyno Proven" as in: done in front of many people, at an event, etc on a chassis dynamometer.

Don~

 

Anybody that thinks that Mitchell, Shied or Haisley's trucks don’t make 1,000 HP are in denial.

As for 'dyno' numbers. Chassis dynos that are at events are inertia machines, that’s it. The 'HP' calculated (yes that’s right the HP is calculated not measured on these 'dynos') is a function of how quickly you accelerate a rotating mass. Factors which are involved in this are, among others: Weight of your wheels and tires, weight of your flywheel and clutch assembly, gear ratio, camshaft duration, turbo spool up time, injection pump fueling rate of increase, rate of timing advance and how the 'driver' operates his truck on the dyno. These factors are not standardized between trucks. These dynos are indicative of the RATE of rpm increase capable of the machine (truck) driving the heavy rollers. This happens to be a good indicator of how 'peppy' a truck feels on the street, but it has nothing to do whatsoever with actual steady state HP that the trucks either make or don’t. This is one of the reasons why seemingly even matched 12v vs 24v engines, the 12v always 'makes' more HP on these 'dynos'.

It is a complete farce to even call that machine a dyno.

Take the engine out, put it on a water brake or eddy current DYNO and then talk to me about dyno numbers.


Kevin

 

Don,
I read last year that you thought high RPM was a waste of energy??? Why the change???

 

I have used engine dynos for years. Well, since the mid 80's- developing many fueling parameters, port, valve and camshaft designs and sheet metal intake manifolds for large displacement Pro-Stock engines used in IHRA and NHRA competitions. After this I moved to tuning alcohol funny cars and tuned our first 6 second funny car pass in Dallas the year the new all concrete track opened. I traveled the country tuning that JP HEMI to well over 2500 HP. Took it to Japan and Australia as well. During this time I built several street rods that ran in the 10's on my free days. This was all before 1992.

The same fella that had the Pro-Stocker also messed with drag boats. My first experience with Nitromethane and superchargers That got my feet wet with nitro and tuning those crazy high volume systems.

To say we dynoed everything from a 250 HP in-line 6 to 1300 HP, 700 cubic incher would be an understatement. That data was in many cases transfered directly to chassis dynamometers after the engines were installed. The data we collected showed us a loss or gain on both tools. A loss on the engine dyno was a loss on the chassis dyno.

Moving forward to 2000 I began messing with Diesel trucks. Mostly mine. I got in contact with one of the best. Learned a bunch, sponged a bunch and even had some of my own positive input. I watched a 3 month span of power making go from 600 HP to 799.9 with some parts from a youngster ( me ) and some from a few others. This was all gained on a (Dynojet) chassis dyno and learning from what we watched happen, making the right changes to the right parts and moving forward. A year later..the playing continues and the HP has jumped to numbers that get tossed around on the internet.

Adding a bit more...we used the DynoJet 248C inertia dyno to tune the Mach 6 injectors for the 24 valve. With every dyno run we made that showed an improvement in HP on the graph...directly translated to a lower ET and faster MPH on the track. This is how we used one of many tools (the Dynojet ) to build injectors that are currently the highest powered injector for trucks using a stock VP44 injection pump and Diesel fuel only. Not just on the Dyno, but on the track too. The fastest Diesel only time belongs to the Mach 6. The last two racing years have been covered up with 12 second and sub 12 second runs with a Mach 6. The Dynojet proved its reliabilty and ability to consistantly duplicate the runs over the months/years. With 1500 plus dyno runs under my belt now..I think I have a pretty good idea of what works and what direction to take to head the right direction. Now in 04/05 we are into the 3rd generation trucks and have the fastest 12 second 3rd gen on Diesle fuel only and if not the highest Diesel only HP...one of the top few to make 600HP. If anyone wants to use another brand/type of dyno thats fine with me

Of course none of this has anything to do with the original thread topic

Don~

 

It really is for street trucks, but in 2002 I also said the better trucks on the sled pulling circuit had some RPM advantages. So, I built a billet gov system for the current P pumps and now can turn 6 grand with ease and have a fuel curve that actually works good.

Proving my 2002 point that RPM was a large factor when talking about sled pulling ability was a guy back in Nov that used a stock VP44 HO pumped engine ( the weaker of the two injection pumps ) to come within 20 feet of the seasoned pullers with high RPM 12 valves that some say have over 1000 HP. This little VP truck dynoed less than 550 HP with Bully Dog 7's His biggest improvement was the Redline box and Mach 6 injectors. I had a big smile when I heard this. A total newbie with some RPM and a basically stock truck did pretty good against the Pros.

RPM...there is not much HP up there in these 24 valves, but them seem to be pulling pretty good against the 12 valves with 1000HP. LOL!

Don~

 

Don, as you dresribed in your post, these dynos can be used to determine how quick a truck feels on the street and more importantly, changes that are made to the engine of ONE particular truck. It is a RELATIVE tool these inertia 'dynos'. They, however, are NOT accruate, fair or reliable in comparing DIFFERENT trucks, and in determining the amount of HP they make. Fruthermore as the HP and torque levels increase, the interia of the trucks components becomes a bigger and bigger pecentage factor relative to the inertia of the 'dyno'. Therefore when trucks make serious power, they 'wing' the 'dyno' up so fast that they are also 'winging' their own compoents up faster and faster, thus using more hp PRIOR to the rollers.

Not to use Brandon (joefamer) as an example, but I will. Check out his web site and download the tractor pull video, (I think its Hilliard, OH). Brandon has a quick street truck which holds a dyno sheet with 600 HP and 1,300 Ft*Lbs. Now watch Brandons truck pull that sled compared to Mitchell, Haisely, and Shied.. Do that and tell me those boys dont make 1,000 HP. This is in no way meant to slam Brandon, his truck is a GREAT street rig and Mitchell and the boys trailer their machines there. Just to point out the difference between a dynoed machine of known 600 HP and the ones that are making 1,000 HP+.

Kevin

 

We can dyno a truck with a chassis dyno and grab a HP number. We then turn around and run that truck on the track. After Patrick Hale ( the inventor of Quarter Jr ) worked so hard and long on the calculations of 1/4 mile speed and ET I can tell you the numbers we calc using his formula and the numbers the Dynojet gives us is always within a few tenths in ET and always within 2% in MPH. So I have to respectfully disagree with your first paragraph. I have seen real world tests that have shown me different.

Brandons truck is not set up with a Redline box. His truck is RPM limited. Brandon does not sled pull very often. So, you are correct..the pulling rules are not fair to put a 24 valve street truck in the same class and a P pumped higher RPM Pro catagory truck. This is a fundamental problem that wont be fixed with complaining either.

Don~

 

I've had mine up 156,000 rph (rev per hour).

 

156,000 RPH, too cool !!! We needed a sense of humor guy to lighten this post up a bit !!!!


I wont retract my statement at all about high HP trucks being unfavorably represented on chassis inertia 'dynos'. Build a chassis inertia dyno with 30 ton rollers, so that the rate of RPM rise isn’t so quick and that would be fine. Right now, the RPM's increase too fast with a high HP truck on these 'dynos' that too many other factors taint the results as I previously stated.

And just to clarify how I have not wavered from my remarks I'll say it again....

CHASSIS INERTIA 'DYNOS' ARE NOT DYNAMOMETERS since they don’t MEASURE torque. They are comparative machines nothing more. The 'HP' and torque they come up with is a joke of estimated calculations the likes of which Hillary Clinton would use while selling her socialized heath care program to the unsuspecting tax payers of this country......



Kevin

 

I agree with the Hillary comment at least!

 

RPM...there is not much HP up there in these 24 valves, but them seem to be pulling pretty good against the 12 valves with 1000HP. LOL!

Don~

That has to be one of the funniest things I have ever read on the internet. Where was this observed and was there class seperation such as street and open. The closest truck to Kent at Muncie was Ryan Milby in the Mod street, I believe he was only 35 feet behind him pulling a lighter set sled. To be honest I have beaten Dave Mitchell once or twice, so he broke both times big deal. I also only lost to him by 20 feet once 2 years ago, but to see the video shows why it happened, he would have needed tracks to get the power to the ground on that track. Don, you need to watch some more pulls before you think you have it all figured out Why don't you bring that 6000 rpm monster to Indy but only let it run at about 550 hp,you wouldn't even win the mod street

 

I dont think I have it all figured out, but the guy was 20 feet behind 2 12 valves and he beat Darryl Poole and Eric Stingley. He is a full fledged rookie with a box stock 24 valve engine with set of turbos, injectors, and a fuel box. Nothing fancy.

Your right I have a lot to learn about pulling, but one day I might be teaching some as well

Don~

 

Here are the results. I dont have any details of how the sled was set but I see several trucks broke.

Little ol Nolan was third place on Saturday. I have been told these truck have over 1000 HP by the Pros of sled pulling, but I cant figure out for the life of me how the heck a 550 HP 24 valve could keep up with half the power. Well like you said....I have a lot to learn. After the pull was over several of the pros wanted to talk to Nolan and asked what he had done to make his truck run so good. He told them the biggest change was the injectors from Don M and he told me most of them did not want much to do with him after that. Thats not nice for Pros to act that way to Rookies, but maybe thats how the game is played.

Thanks for the offer to pull against the Pros in Indy, but I cant afford it that early in the season. My plan is to get this little 12 valve running like a Rookie knows how and give sled pulling a go or two this summer. If anything the Pros can laugh at me. For a while anyway



2004 RESULTS Jesup, GA Truck & Tractor Pull 2004

FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 19

*

1ST VAN HAISLEY - FULL PULL
*

1ST CURT HAISLEY - FULL PULL
*

3RD ERIC STINGLEY
*

4TH DARYL POOLE
*

5TH ERIK STACEY
*

6TH NOLAN DEAS
*

7TH CRAIG SEVERSON, BROKE
*

8TH JEFF BURTON (DAVE MITCHELL'S TRUCK), BROKE FRONT SUSPENSION

SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 20

*

1ST CURT HAISLEY - FULL PULL
*

1ST JEFF BURTON (DAVE MITCHELL'S TRUCK) - FULL PULL
*

3RD NOLAN DEAS
*

4TH DARYL POOLE
*

5TH ERIK STACEY, BROKE HIS HITCH, BUT HE WAS STILL SMILING!
*

6TH ERIC STINGLEY
*

7TH VAN HAISLEY, BROKE REAR END

THE WEATHER WAS GREAT!!! 80 DEGREES! THE BREEZE WAS BLOWING "THE SMELL" AWAY FROM THE FAIRGROUNDS PRETTY GOOD ON FRIDAY - IT WAS TOLERABLE, AND ON SATURDAY, YOU DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THE PULP MILL EXISTED!! WE HAD A GOOD TIME!