NHDiesel

Just an update to my transmission project (Spicer 3053A). I found that I can get a medium duty flywheel that takes a 14" clutch, and should fit in the SAE bellhousing thats on its way. That will let me buy a clutch with a much higher torque rating for much less money than a high end Dodge replacement. Since I'm a cheap SOB, I like the idea of less $$$. Has anyone tried using one of these larger flywheels, and if so, do you know the outer diameter of it? I just want to make sure it will fit in the bellhousing I'll be using.

Jim

NHDiesel

I'm quite surprised nobody has replied to this thread, since many members seem to be interested in beefy transmission alternatives. Maybe there will be more interest once my transmission is installed and working well.

Anyway, here are the updates: I purchased a transmission this week, for a whopping $76.89. Thats for a Spicer 3053a from a 2.5 ton 6x6. I also purchased a Cummins 6b SAE #3 bellhousing adapter for $75. Both items should arrive soon, then I'll start fabbing up the transmission to t-case adapter. I'll be using my stock 241 case. I priced out a brand new starter, not reman, for $129. In a week or two I'll be ordering up a flywheel. Hopefully I'll find a used one, if not, I'll pay the $280 for a new one. I have a Ram hydraulic master cylinder on the way, and I'll be buying a hose as soon as I can take better measurments for length. I'm going to use a Wilwood slave cylinder, and make up a bracket that bolts in place of the transmission PTO cover.

There are 2 things that will be left to some measuring and more research before I actually start the swap. First, and minor, is the location of the starter. The SAE adapter puts the starter on the passenger side of the engine, exactly where the Dodge block heater is. I don't see a problem relocating the block heater for clearance, and running new hoses to it. The housing will also be a bit close to my 4" downpipe, but I'll be able to grind off some additional casting ears that were used for bellhousing transmission mounting. If necessary, I don't mind clearancing a small spot of the downpipe 1/4 or 1/2" to make room, but I don't think it will be necessary judging from the measurements of the adapter. The sae #3 adapter really doesn't look that much larger than our Dodge adapters.

Next is the transfer case adapter. I have access to a milling machine, indexing head, lathe, plasma cutter (and a CNC plasma cutter table), and plenty of machining experience, so physically bolting up the transfer case isn't a problem. The fun part will be joining the shafts. The transmission has a 10 spline, 1 1/2" output and comes with a 4 bolt driveshaft flange, since it was designed for a divorced transfer case. Our transfer cases have a 29 spline, 1 1/2" input. I'm looking into various options for adapters between the two shafts. I have a couple good possibilities, but I won't go into them right now until I have the parts in hand and can test the ideas on the actual parts. My goal is to locate the transfer case exactly where it is now, so that i can use stock replacement driveshafts if a replacement is necessary, and I won't need to spend money on custom shafts.

I had originally planned $1500 to do the swap, and I had hoped to get it under that by a couple hundred with careful shopping. I saved a ton of money on the transmission, so I'll be able to spend a little extra in other areas if necessary. I'll be posting pictures as soon as they are approved. Feel free to add any suggestions or info...I value the opinions of experienced Cummins owners. If anyone wants to get into an in-depth discussion, go ahead and e-mail me if you want.

Jim

bgilbert

How many gears does the Spicer 3053a have and is the top gear overdrive? Ratio? What are your plans for this truck? Puller, driver ?

wannadiesel

I'll solve that problem for you. It's not a block heater, it's a trans cooler. Problem solved.

robert chilton

That is one big tranny. Should actually make a nice swap. They shift real nice too. Heres some info on the trans for those who are interested.
http://jpmagazine.com/techarticles/d...154_0509_five/

NHDiesel

The intended use is a daily driver and occasional trailer puller. The trailers would most likely be 1-car trailers, but occasionally might be pulling some of my father's equipment if i borrow it, such as his backhoe, Kubota, etc. I'm primarily looking for a combination of reliability and economy, and the ability to hold up to my #10 plate (which my auto doesn't come close to). I know there are built autos available, and I won't go into debates, but its enough to say that I enjoy doing things in a different way, like the pride of doing it myself, and I should be able to do this for much less money than a built auto because of my experience, part's scavenging ability, and machining ability.

The 3053a is a 5-speed overdrive, with very similar ratios to an nv4500. Its much beefier than a 4500, but really isn't much larger or heavier. As the jp Magazine article shows (JP Magazine is where I got the idea for this project), the Spicer is 35 lbs. heavier (nothing for our trucks), about 1" longer, and judging by the pictures, it looks slightly narrower than a 4500. Its easy to bolt up to our Cummins engines, and for 4x2 owners, it would be a great transmission for hotshot work or general towing since it would be an extremely simple swap. Hopefully I'll come up with a reasonably simple way to adapt our 214 'cases to it. I'll post more pictures soon of various angles of the transmission in better detail than the JP Magazine article shows. One thing that might be awkward for some would be the shifting pattern, but I don't think it would take much to get used to. I'm going to make up a custom shift **** at work showing the pattern on it, or else make a plate for the dash.

Jim

NHDiesel

O.K., my pics were approved, so here goes.

SAE #3 adapter, engine side view. Note the starter hole location.


Flywheel side picture. You can see the protrusions in the casting that I'll probably have to remove:


Rear of the Spicer trans, and the driveshaft flange:


Spicer 3053a next to SM465, taken from JP site:


Shift pattern:


Orientation of the PTO cover to the clutch shaft:


More pics are in my gallery.

Jim

STACKED

That sounds like a really great idea. i also saw the jeep article and considered this for my Z71 that have duece and a half axles and 52s on it. never thought of it for my diesel but seems like a good swap to think about. it should be able to handle the amount of power and torque these diesels are able to put to it, even the clutch seems up for the task.
but since you have a fourwheel drive do you plan on divorcing the transfercase and shortning your drive shafts?
let us know how it works out.

signature600

That thing is only 35lb heavier than a NV4500?? Th NV5600 is about 100lbs heavier than the 4500

Should be a fun driver...other than the screwy shift pattern. I probably would've tried to shoehorn a Eaton 8LL, or Super 10 behind it though, but I'm "screwy" like that myself

BTW, Where did you find that SAE bell housing for that cheap, and the flywheel?? I just bought 2 5.9L's out of F800 Fords (1 Long Block, 1 Complete less good oil pan and pickup tube)

Good Luck,
Chris

NHDiesel

My goal is to have the 'case mated to the trans, not divorced. I'm prepared to go with whatever I have to, so if I can't get an adapter to work, I'll divorce it, but thats my last choice. I'll know more when the trans arrives, but the nice thing about the cast iron housings is that they can be drilled and tapped. I'm planning to drill and tap the rear of the trans for the adapter, just to give it more to attach to than the 4 bolts of the tailshaft seal housing. Looking at the photos of the rear of the tranny, it looks like I would have room for one more bolt to the right of the tailshaft housing, and I might even use the adapter to replace the lower shaft housing as well, giving me 4 more bolt holes. These are just very rough ideas, since I haven't even seen the tranny in person yet.

One thing I may need, would be a tailshaft from a transmission to use to make the shaft coupler. I haven't found anyplace that sells just splined shafts in 1 1/2" 29 spline, so I may use a transmission output shaft to make the adapter to the t-case.

Jim

NHDiesel

According to the JP article, the 3053a (the "a" means it has overdrive...the standard 3053 is direct) weighs 230 lbs., and the 4500 is 195. I got the adapter from someone with a 4bt that came with it, and he is looking for a Ford adapter, so he didn't need this one. There is another adapter on ebay right now, slightly different than mine but still #3, for $250. Yea, I scored. :-)

Jim

robert chilton

To bad the 3053B doesnt have a little lower gearing. It has the .75 overdrive in it. I wonder if it would swap into the A case? If I every grenade my 5spd I may do the same thing as you. I got bored last night and looked at the road ranger. They wouldnt work to good. They start at right under 800lbs and are air shift

oestreich84

The picture with the Spicer next to the nv4500 is wrong, I think. On the JP site, it says that the picture is a Spicer 3053a next to a SM465 from a Chevy. I did a 5 minute search and couldn't find any pictures of a 3053a next to a nv4500. I would be interested to see the difference though

robert chilton

That is definatly a muncie 465 trans. To bad they dont make those in an OD set up. I dont think you could break one with 1000lbs of torque and dropping the clutch at 2000 RPM daily. I used to have a 76 blazer with one and a 400 sb making 500ftlbs that I beat on daily and the only trans work was to replace the sintered bearings between the mainshaft and the gears. I wont even count the axles but she went through over 30 wheel bearings, 10 12" clutches and 4 xfercases! I even bent the floorboard with the shifter tower and rolled it under like a sardine can. I miss that truck! She was truely a timex for the abuse I put her through when I was in high school.

STACKED

with that adapter does it make it fit to the input splines of the tcase, or do you have to change the input on tcase also?