Any of you guys use a HiLift on your trucks without having to buy new bumper? after market bumpers are cool, to be sure, but heavy and/or expensive. I was thinking some custom fab work might be requried to make suitable lift points. Anyone done this? <br><br>Ultimately I'd like to install a grille guard and winch mount system and be able to use the Hilift. anyone done this?

 

Doug:<br>I have a 60&quot; hi lift for the truck. I got quite a while ago but have not had to use it to lift the rear of the truck. My front has a DOR bumper on it and I have used it to lift the front before with no problems. I have not had a need to lift the rear with the stock bumper. They do make an attachment for it to lift with the curved bumpers and I do have one but have not actually tried it out. Someone gave it to me last year. Here is a link to see one.<br><br>http://www.central4wd.com/store/itemdetail.asp?ID=868<br><br>Since I have removed the front stock bumper I think I can say that the above attachment will not work on the front plastic, barely any thin metal that they call a front bumper. But the rear bumper may very well work with that attachment since it is your average type bumper style. The front end is so heavy that if your fabbing something up for a lift point I would make sure it attaches to the frame. The stock front bumper has so much plastic and relatively thin metal that it probably can't take much torsional stress without twisting into a pretzel. What about extending some hd square tubular iron out the front just far enough so that it is just a hair past the front of the bumper and attached to say where the tow hooks would attach with some clevis/shackles as a jack point, maybe even like a drawtite setup where you could remove the extensions... thinking out loud there now you see why I usually don't do it out loud.

 

cool ideas, Barry. I don't really need the whole bumper, as long as I had a bumper guard suitable for a winch mount (was thinking about the Warn 12,000 and their trans4mer system, or something like that. <br><br>I've got the factory tow hooks on there, but they are just not up to it (tried and ended up slightly bending one). a bolt-on thing would really be the ticket, in case I have to take it off to fit something else (or something better) on there. Extensions would be cool! why not just stick the jack lift into the square tubing itself?

 

Doug:<br>I was looking at some on board air compressors and ran across something that might be usefull in your quest to be able to use the hi-lift. Go to <br>http://www.extremeoutback.com/Accessories.htm<br>scroll down to aussie jack adapter.

 

hey thats cool. just don't expect to change a tire that way ;D.<br><br>what I'm finding is that, outside of a new bumper (the likes of DOR, Ruenel) there just is no solution. All these guys that rave about the Hi-Lift must all have after market bumpers. seems like a grille guard could do it, but I don't see any of the bolt-on solutions accomodating the Hi-Lift either. <br><br>as for the on board air, the York solution in another thread is really interesting!

 

I've seen the hi lift jack used in the standard hitch receiver with an adapter for the jack. Since you can mount a receiver in the front this should work for the ram...<br><br>Just my 2c<br><br>AlpineRAM

 

hmmmm. I may have to go that route, which would serve as a winch mount as well of course I just like the looks of the grille guard / fixed winch mount systems, and I was hoping to find a bolt on solution that would also accomodate the Hi-Lift. <br><br>the front receiver winch mount / Hi-Lift jack attachment point is attractive in the sense that it allows you to have one winch and mount it either on the front receiver or the back receiver. And MileMarker makes a 12,000 pound hydraulic that will do just that. the plumbing is complex, but its been done.<br><br>where do you get this receiver adapter for the HiLift?

 

Well I'd personally go for an electric winch. Either you do a proper hydraulic coming from the PTO or risk your power steering with the ones I saw.... There are some good electric winches on the market. I had a Warn and was very content until it rusted away because of being exposed to the elements all the time- which wouldn't have happened if it had had a cosy box on the bed to stay. Also it's much easyer to route power cables than hydraulics. There are US MIL adaprors used for jump starting 12V vehicles that are availlable with watertight caps. <br>When you do the hitch mount for the winch see that the pull of the winch is centered to the hitch adapter to avoid the winch trying to bend the mounts.<br><br><br>The adapter for the hitch I saw looked homemade-just a kind of rectangular pipe filled with flat iron that was spot welded to its inside to accomodate the hi-lift's ehmmm thingy that lifts the car. (too lazy to run for the dictionary )<br><br><br>Just my 2c<br><br>AlpineRAM

 

indeed. good comments. I've been reading through all the hydraulic versus electric debates over on the TDR. The argument about power steering stress has been severely questioned because the (PS) system works less powering the winch than it does driving a curvy road -- and you're never doing those things at the same time. Personally I'm more familiar with wiring (especially dual winch mounts!) then stringing hydraulic lines around so I'm definately more comfortable with electric. For an electric winch I'd probably put in an isolated auxilliary battery so that i don't drain my starting batteries. thats simpler than plumbing two sets of hydraulic hoses front and rear :-). <br><br>The PTO hydraulic thing is very attractive indeed. you have a separate pump that runs off the transfer case. and you don't bother your PS system at all. thats very cool. Do you know of anyone who has done this? <br><br>problem with electrics that the hydraulics solve is that they're only good for a short period of time, they draw thousands of watts of power, dissipate most of that in the form of heat, and there is the danger of overheating if you have to winch up a long grade. they don't maintain their pulling power as the battery drains, etc. All things that get more important as the vehicle weight gets higher. <br><br>problem is, warn doesn't make a receiver mount for their 12,000 lbs winch. I'm not sure I want to put their 9500 lb multi mount winch on there, as it would surely work very hard. <br><br>so you're making some good comments and hitting the current issues wrt the winch debate. We should have a 4wd/offroad section in this forum!

 

Doug: I did not question the PS pump being up to the task. I would be afraid in the situation of a dual winch mount that when putting on the winch on the connectors you usually get some air and some dirt into the system. The standard power steering has no filter I know of and no provision for really draining it. Also a leak in the winch system (something that can happen when offroading) will leave you without PS and probably kill the pump because you can not disconnect it. <br>I believe that the alternator of he CTD will do a good job in replenishing your batteries really fast, or may even be up to par with a nice winch. In almost any situation I was in (including 4 Sahara crossings and about 65000 miles offroad in Africa) I did not need very long pulls. I used a rather small winch, the Warn X6, which would be suitable for your application IMHO. I used a wheel to double the pulling force. Usually this was more pull than any anchor I could find would hold. I think that a much stronger winch will become too heavy to be mounted alone when offroad and on a muddy incline. I found that usually people who have winches lack the other vital equipment like anchoors, belts, extending cables etc to make full use of their winches. I had a remote control mounted on the stick to be able to assist the winch while ascending. I think that this would work best with an auto. <br><br>About PTO winches: I do not know anybody who makes a kit, but I have seen PTO mounted hydraulic pumps. The downside is that ground clearance was reduced. You could hook any hydraulic winch to this circuit. The ones I had seen were used to bring in wood by forresters. (Mounted on the bed, some 500 yards of cable or more.. with the center of gravity up there you won't want to go offroading)<br>Aboput dimensioning of the winch: If another truck can pull you out of the spot you can assume that thew other truck will pull with a force amounting to about one quarter of its weight on good terrain. And this for a small percentage of the pull. I usually say if you want to go straight up you buy a helicoptrer ;D<br><br>AlpineRAM

 

I certainly agree with you about the complexity of the hydraulics and the dual mount system. I've seen pictures of an install that was very nice -- quick disconnects and dirt covers and all, but I really don't want that much complexity. And you're right about the hydraulic connections -- you don't want to risk getting dirt or air into your power steering system.<br><br>And I'm glad you commented on the sizing question too -- I was just reading on line about the likes of Desert Tank and others who have put on 12,000 to 15,000 pound winches on these trucks -- with after market bumpers of course. But you've made a good point in that for self extraction while offroad you really don't need that much winch. Maybe for pulling something out of the deep wet sand at the beach, but not for occasional use getting unstuck. <br><br>and about the weight of the winch itself: I figure If I'm taking the chance of having to use the winch -- I won't go alone :-). But I hear you on the difficulty of taking a 50 Kg beast from the front receiver to the back. thats arguably a two-person job for most of us. <br><br>Having a reliable winch on either end of the truck, for occasional self extraction, is really all I need so maybe that Warn 9500 lb portable would be plenty of winch, especially with a ****** block. I guess if that can't get me out, then my problem is a lot bigger than a truck-mounted winch can solve ;D As for the anchors, thats a good point too -- thankfully, where I go there's often a large tree within 30-40 meters. nice bonus ;D<br><br>Interesting rule of thumb about another truck pulling with about 1/4 its own weight. What's the mathematical or experimental basis for this number? sure sounds reasonable, though, given good traction and all of that. Excelent, practical insight! But if you're stuck, another truck is often not able to pull you out with just its own traction. sometimes guys around here do full throttle snatches with a 30 foot tow strap -- dangerous, it may be the only option if there's no rocks or trees around to winch from. they just don't put any hardware on the ends of the straps to become missiles if something breaks.<br><br>on alternator capacity. 130A isn't much for a pull requring as much current as the starter motor does (depending on the wich, thats good for a pull of about 1000 pounds, as long as nothing else like your headlights are on...). But you're right that it's only for a short pull, and for the vast majority of cases the starting battery will work and be replenished quickly. The duty cycle of the winch isn't that great anyway, and IMHO our starting systems are overdesigned and quite capable of supporting an electric winch. the earlier CTD trucks had only one battery! Just for the purpose of separating the winch and starting circuits, however, one could install an auxilliary battery and isolator, which to me is an idea with some merit if you want to get serious.<br><br>also, you made a good point about making the most of the winch. Since we have no offroad section in this forum I guess this is appropriate here -- beyond (and including) the winch itself would you mind sharing what all you carry for self extraction?

 

I took the figure of roughly 1/4 of the weight by using a spring scale on a tow rope. So I could measure the pulling force on the rope. Some measurements were made on different trucks and offroaders. We did not try to yank it out of the mud or the like. <br>In the mud I found it most useful to have my wheels turn under power when winching or being towed. One of the most important &quot;tools&quot; I use for offroading are Austrian army boots. You have to love a sprained ankle somewhere in the deep pudding :'( <br>With the Dodge I do use a 3 ton hand winch and lots of cable. I do want a pull as straight as possible into the desired direction. And I want a safe anchor. I use a tree saving belt when using trees. (Legal reasons and the cable stays clean and straight)<br>I do also use security flags on both ends of the cable to avoid whiplash when the cable breaks.<br>Over here teh military uses 0.5 ton hand winches to extract 12 ton trucks. It works nice whne using proper caution, a shovel and some intelligence. The use of comparably weak winches led to a masive reduction of truck damages and accidents.<br><br>Later<br><br>AlpineRAM