Don't know if any of you guys out here in CO saw the bit on the news last night about the people in the town of Morrison. There are some people "concerned" about having a memorial to Vietnam Veterans that looks too violent. It is a sculpture of an M16 rifle, muzzle stuck in the ground with a helmet on top of the stock. People in town don't want to have to drive past something that portrays violence. They say they aren't opposed to a memorial, just not one with that image. Couldn't find a link to a picture or article to post. It just kinda turned my crank. >

 

I missed it but saw this on their web site: http://www.9news.com/storyfull-newsroom.asp?id=18263

Seems like Boulder overflowed and some of it's residents landed in Morrison. Looks like I will be taking a ride into morrison to see it.

 

I didn't see this, but this kind of stuff just cracks me up. How is an M16 "violent?" I've seen the things sitting in rows in the armory for days and weeks on end, and never saw one of them do anything violent. In fact, I never saw any of them do anything at all.

I can't figure out if people are actually getting stupider, or if they've always been stupid and just were afraid to show it before.

 

They dont get it. The Military is violent and always will be.
But we who served served so people can voice their Opinions. And we all know what OPINIONs are like!

 

It's people like this that make me question whether or not my service is worthwhile. I really get angry thinking about just who it is I am fighting for. It certainly isn't the socialists in Hollywood, or those who get offended by the effort to respect members of this nation who served it when called to do so. Sometimes I feel like I might as well be fighting FOR socialism, not freedom! > >

 

[quote author=WHIFF link=board=10;threadid=19167;start=0#msg180150 date=1062621423]
It's people like this that make me question whether or not my service is worthwhile. I really get angry thinking about just who it is I am fighting for. It certainly isn't the socialists in Hollywood, or those who get offended by the effort to respect members of this nation who served it when called to do so. Sometimes I feel like I might as well be fighting FOR socialism, not freedom! > >
[/quote]
It was worth while. this is still the only Free nation in the world thanks to you. I Salute your Service o>

 

Slightly off topic but:

Over here when you start your service you make the oath to "The government of the republic (of Austria) and all future governments of Austria to serve and protect" etc.

Is this similar in the US and Canada? I didn't swear this oath because I can't say that I'll defend a future government even one that acts against the will of the population.

On topic- I think that people who think that the sign of the last place for a fallen soldier is "violent" are right- it shows teh ultimate outcome of violence, death. Any military occupies itself professionally with violence and death-if you make a memorial for soldiers, some military or any war you make a memorial to violence.
I think that this memorial is a good idea. It shows directly and serves by making the watcher think about violence- and about necessity, things that may have to be valued higher than the life of a soldier-but who is it that will decide what is worth more than whose life...

AlpineRAM

 

AlpineRam,

Oath of enlistment:

"I DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR (OR AFFIRM) THAT I WILL SUPPORT AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES AGAINST ALL ENEMIES, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC; THAT I WILL BEAR TRUE FAITH AND ALLEGIANCE TO THE SAME; AND THAT I WILL OBEY THE ORDERS OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE ORDERS OF THE OFFICERS APPOINTED OVER ME, ACCORDING TO REGULATIONS AND THE UNIFORM CODE OF MILITARY JUSTICE. SO HELP ME GOD."

 

Thanks hotdram!

So this oath is bound to the regulations.(that may be changed) But not limited to the president who is in power at teh moment, but to any future president. Basically the same as over here as far as I understand it.
Is there any "exit clause" for the case when you can't support what your president orders- imagine a "president hitler" ordering to nuke some country because the ambassador has beat him at a game of golf?

AlpineRAM

 

[quote author=AlpineRAM link=board=10;threadid=19167;start=0#msg180178 date=1062625685]
Thanks hotdram!

So this oath is bound to the regulations.(that may be changed) But not limited to the president who is in power at teh moment, but to any future president. Basically the same as over here as far as I understand it.
Is there any "exit clause" for the case when you can't support what your president orders- imagine a "president hitler" ordering to nuke some country because the ambassador has beat him at a game of golf?

AlpineRAM
[/quote]

The Uniform Code of Military Justice provides that you do not have to obey unlawful orders. That would include nuking, say, France, for harboring a no-talent loser like Johnny Depp.

 

[quote author=jfpointer link=board=10;threadid=19167;start=0#msg180201 date=1062627963]
The Uniform Code of Military Justice provides that you do not have to obey unlawful orders. That would include nuking, say, France, for harboring a no-talent loser like Johnny Depp.
[/quote]

;D ;D ;D

 

[quote author=hotdram link=board=10;threadid=19167;start=0#msg180170 date=1062624226]
AlpineRam,

Oath of enlistment:

"I DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR (OR AFFIRM) THAT I WILL SUPPORT AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES AGAINST ALL ENEMIES, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC; THAT I WILL BEAR TRUE FAITH AND ALLEGIANCE TO THE SAME; AND THAT I WILL OBEY THE ORDERS OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE ORDERS OF THE OFFICERS APPOINTED OVER ME, ACCORDING TO REGULATIONS AND THE UNIFORM CODE OF MILITARY JUSTICE. SO HELP ME GOD."

[/quote]

That is the oath I took, that is the oath I stand by. I even went to Kosovo to assuage a former President's unfounded fears of genocide. I don't stand by the unconstitutional things that are going on, like the kalifornia state supreme court overruling a Constitutionally valid voter initiative (Prop 187) and the myriad other unconstitutional things Congress is forcing at us.
I support the right to free speech, but have also noticed that "free" speech means unpopular and most often hateful rhetoric against the country I love. Patriotic speech doesn't need protection....YET.

 

[quote author=WHIFF link=board=10;threadid=19167;start=0#msg180150 date=1062621423]
It's people like this that make me question whether or not my service is worthwhile. I really get angry thinking about just who it is I am fighting for. It certainly isn't the socialists in Hollywood, or those who get offended by the effort to respect members of this nation who served it when called to do so. Sometimes I feel like I might as well be fighting FOR socialism, not freedom! > > [/quote]

ramlovingVetWhat ramlovingVet said.

I understand your anger and frustration, but know this, it is only a very minute fraction of the people of the U. S. A. that feel that way. By far the largest majority of people are grateful and appreciate your service more than we can tell you. Keep your head up, walk tall and accept our heartfelt thanks.

Stan

 

[quote author=WHIFF link=board=10;threadid=19167;start=0#msg180406 date=1062679368]
Patriotic speech doesn't need protection....YET.
[/quote]

In my opinion, this memorial is patriotic speech that needs to be protected.

I saw this news story and it really ticked me off. This soccer mom stood in front of a group of war veterans and told them that the memorial they chose to honor their fallen comrades is something she doesn't feel comfortable looking at. Then, in almost the same breath, she tells the press that she respects and supports the veterans, but she wants them to "give us another choice" for the memorial. Why does she even think she deserves a vote in selecting the memorial? This was a memorial created by veterans for veterans.

Yes, she has every right to voice an opinion, but her right to free speech doesn't automatically validate her opinion. If she insists on speaking, she should at least have the guts to say what she really means - she doesn't want to be exposed to any of the violence that has happened on her behalf.

I never served in the military, but I come from a military family and several members of my family have served. I would be honored to have that memorial in my town. In fact, I would be honored to have it in my front yard!

 

These memorials are, as Alpine Ram said, a memorial to the violence that comes with war/conflict. It is for that very reason that people like this "soccer mom" should see it, so that people DON'T forget how ugly war is, and therefore try to avoid it so we don't waste precious life needlessly. From time to time, there will always be a few come along like Hitler that do not value life, and putting them down will cost life; however, that costs much less than not putting them down early. I doubt we'll see the end of man's conflicts with his fellow man, but these memorials serve to remind us that NOTHING, including freedom from opression/dictatorship, is free, and that the alternative is even worse. Unfortunately, this woman and her like don't understand that at all, and were probably far too protected from reality when growing up - they really don't understand that the conflict between good and evil is BASIC, and will continue until the 2nd coming of Christ at least. I have served the Constitution, as have my siblings and father, and my oath to uphold and protect the Constitution from all enemies, both foreign and domestic, is an oath that I have never relinquished to this day, as I see it as the responsibility of every citizen to uphold the ideals of their societal base until that base becomes corrupted. Off the soapbox now.