EXACTLY. ...

 

Exactly the point I was trying to make, but you said it better. His officer safety was BAD.

 

I was pulled over recently for the first time in thirty years. I knew what I'd done wrong,had my license ready,admitted guilt to the officer and it seemed to take him by surprise. He said,"well I'm going to let you off with a warning today". I shook his hand,thanked him,and will not repeat the mistake. I feel most experienced officers just want to put in their eight like anybody else. Sometimes the rookies,like in any profession are a little overzealous in their undertakings.The best of them put their lives on the line everyday.

 

OK I'm glad this was posted. Yesterday at Turkey dinner I had to hear all about it and plenty of friendly jabbing from the bro-n-law. Reason is I am a LEO.
OK now my take on the incident. The cop over reacted based on several of my observations. I need to mention I am a field training supervisor as well as an investigator of officer mis-conduct.
I do not intend to change anyone's opinion of what occured but let me point out a few areas of concern.
First the officer would have a hard time convincing me he was overly concerned with the guy going back to the vehicle (officer safety issues) I say this because the officer did a horrible job of using a seven step violator contact(I would hope the way he was trained) IE...... he walked right up to the window, stood infront of the window with his entire body exposed, the officer then completely turned his back and walked back to his car. He acted as if he did not have a care in the world. If the guy meant him harm it would have been easily accomplished early on. Not to say it couldnt escillate to this but....
Anyways to get back on track. The guy in the car was wrong in the fact he demanded the officer show him the sign and he said he was not going to sign the citiation. In lots of places refusal to sign means go to jail.
At this point the officer could have difused the situation some by explaining the man's signature was not a plea of guilt but instead a promise to appear and if he refused to sign then he would be arrested. Again the officer had no duty to explain, but it sure could have helped.
Now that the guy is out of the car the officer had his tazer out immediately. I would ask why? Was there an overt act besided refusing to sign a citation that caused the officer alarm? If there was the officer did not show it instead the officer walked to the rear of the vehicle before the driver did. Again the officer turned his back on the guy. If he was concerned he should have never done these things.
Then once the guy joined him at the rear of the vehicle he immediately pointed his tazer at the guy. For what reason? I did not see where the officer was being threatened.
Now I will say the guy screwed up by walking away. At this point the officer has to react. Maybe the tazer was the best choice at this point but I argue the incident had no reason to escillate to this point.
In conclusion: was the officer justified at the time he depolyed his tazer. I would say yes. Could it have been avoided. I say definately yes. I would say the trooper would be gone if he were in my command. We are trained to take control of situations and he clearly had warning signs he ignored. Had he been a little more flexiable he could have stopped things before they went to far.
I have had more than one traffic stop like this and I have always been able to maintain control without resorting to tazing that quickly. A couple I am thinking of were obviously way worse characters than a guy with his pregnant wife.
Sorry to those I have offended here. I agree I am going to do what it takes to go home at the end of my shift is my ultimate goal, but a little common sense goes a long ways. Remember officers are out there to protect and serve. Not be Billy Bad .... and put everyone down.
Sorry for such a long post. i hope it makes sense.

 

Here's the vid from the Vancouver Airport

 

makes perfect sense to me. nice to hear some input from an LEO, especially one who is trained to investigate these situations

 

DWK, for the most part, I agree but as you are aware, nothing is predictable when dealing with the public. I think the officer lost control of the situation when the driver refused to sign the citation. IMO there should have been a little more dialog concerning the consequences of not signing the citation before moving to arrest. It would seem to me that the officer artificially escalated the situation. A backup unit wasn't long from arriving so why rush. We always worked under the umbrella of "time" is your ally, with very rare exception, you don't have to be in a hurry. The deployment of the Taser seemed to come entirely too fast since only verbal commands were used to this point. As far as officer safety, the best I can say is he did a poor job of it and it's pretty well been covered. It's sad but it happens. Like most jobs, the only way to improve is with training, training and more training.

 

I agree with this... very much. I have fixed so many bad situations with my mouth and not a weapon, it's not funny.
I'm with this, too. I know I posted earlier that the cop was good in my book for zapping him, but I think that he could have handled the situation a lot better.

 

The Trooper looked disinterested to start with and I'd wager he did not learn that approach at the academy. On top of that he failed to articulate what he was doing and why. "Turn around and put your hands behind your back" was too little too late. The violator was controlling that stop from the initial approach.

That said when the violator was moving back towards the vehicle and put his strong hand in his pocket the Trooper needed to take control. If you forget how the stop got to that point I can live with the use of force.

Something was up with the violator. At one point when the Trooper goes back to the door you see the brake lights come on. Hunters call that "sign".

Both are culpable.

 

in Illinois, on the ticket it says to dispute the citation BEFORE it is issued. and the Leo upon request has to show you the radar (in ill )yes, he schould have signed it, as for the signs, he could have documented its placements (photos, etc.) and used that in court. but, what about his demand for his Miranda rights? officer refused to tell him.
what the man schould have done is stay in car and request/demand another officer to the scene. i feel the man was relatively calm and collected(his voice shows that clearly). the officer clearly is a liar, his story is rich in dialog to the Leo that shows up. good thing all his additions are on tape.
i have-give respect to Leos, but this one has got to go

 

Please post that as an attachment. If you don't have have a scanner please provide the link to the applicable state code.

 

ok, **** state training officer, prison guard, lawyer and judge, now retired here:

absolutely cringe when cop approaches, think funeral if you are in NY..
L & R THREE times? nope, no arguing. get the paperwork and station yourself behind the doorframe as you communicate Sir, I had you doing 60 in a 40mph work zone. I pulled off to the shoulder and clocked you on K band radar. Please hand over your license and registration and I will be back in a few minutes, please remain inside your vehicle and turn off the motor.PERIOD
Sound I got was cop asked him how fast he thought he was going.
driver replied I don't know .58? cop explained the 40MPH sign back there.
driver stated he didn't see any sign, arguing began as listed.
Turn around 3x, refused to comply, tased, yada yada....

man, wife- get them seperated. widowmaker in domestic dispute. offer 'Why don't we talk over here, it's safer'; open passenger cage door, ask if he has any weapons on him; have him sit but leave door open, you in front of it. dang it you had BETTER explain it like a third grader then, slow and firm. in NY state you get the computer basic print out of the supporting deposition right then and there. not too helpful but legal basics. saved a LOT of lost Court cases.
Got to give a sandwhich to REDLEG!!- my main concern watching this video was leaving the tasered guy in the traffic lane. I would expect a subpeona on that one...
driver was a danger up in cuffs and coming from behind, wife was unneccessary danger created by lack of training or judgement as above.
violator rodeo , sheesh!...

lack of communication always results in abuse of power.

Heidi in NY with 82 speeding tickets/ zero convictions in first seven years of
driving, then writing tickets with a plea to slow down, the life you save may be your own. yes, cops can be jerks-some earn the right to be human;
BOTH deserve an honest, short reply ( 'I don't know' is still good if you are mad) get the ticket, argue in Court. any Judge will consider reducing the charge to a violation when honest, no threat to society and willing to pay 300 bucks or so for no points, or record- just like a parking ticket.

Court is a whole different sandbox, with different rules of logic. worth it to sit in on a few cases

 

From the other side of the bench I agree that is the truth. Throw the least amount of sand on a turd to make it quit stinking.

 

i dont know the code, but i'll talk to my dad on geting a ticket copied. it says this on the back of the ticket. a little ironic considering that only after the fact( a ticket being issued) can you read this

 

I'm glad we don't have to show speed in radar here. Another officer safety issue. I don't want them anywhere near my car unless they are in cuffs.