What do I think the reason is? My personal opinion is it is a personal agenda between Bush Jr. and Saddam. His dad didn’t get him so his son will. What other reason is there? First he put it under the guise of terrorism and weapons of mass destruction. After there were none he put it as a fight to free the Iraq people a terrible dictator. I keep going back to my previous questions. Tell me, why Iraq? Why not all of these other countries that harbored terrorist? It’s just too convenient. Bush was bound and determined to invade Iraq. Everyone knew it. It was just a matter of time and he found his perfect vehicle, 9/11. He took the world’s sympathy and turned it against us. He defied the U.N. and almost all of our Allies. If all but 1 or 2 countries in the world were telling me it was the wrong course of action I think that I would be wise enough to look for a different solution to the problem.

Once again, IRAQ DID NOT ATTACK US ON 9/11. Osama Bin Laden did.

Do you really think it was for the freedom of the Iraqis?

I won’t say that it didn’t need to be done. But there were more important targets

 

this war isn't a fight for freedom. and it's not because we have a republican president. we shouldn't have been over there in the first place. our men and women are getting killed for all the wrong reasons.

 

Of course the reason was not the outcome I stated-it is a by-product. The reason as we all know was to remove Saddam from power. No one can say that terrorists were not trained there and that it was a haven for terrorists. Since '91, Saddam cooled down in Iraq because he knew he was being watched. We have accomplished the mission of removing him from power. Yes, there are those who still fight.Why, I have no idea.
As you know, the battlefield is very dynamic. There is no way to plan exactly what will unfold in the future. Goals are made, strategies are devised and the method executed. The results aren't always the way they are planned.

If you are going to vote for Kerry just because you disagree with the war, I think that is ignorance. You have to look at all Kerry has flip flopped on. If Kerry took over tomorrow, what do you think Kerry will do with the war? pull everyone out and leave the Iraqis on their own? If he thinks that way now, guaranteed he won't if he is elected. I have no qualms of going over there and ridding them of Saddam and leaving them to fend for themselves-but it is not the right thing to do.

Mike

 

I agree with you. We can't pull out. And no the reason that i will vote for Kerry isn't only the war. But that is for another discussion sometime.

 

t7 if you want to know what hanoi john will do as president then look at his voting record for the last twenty years. he has consistently vote against military funding to give our guys what they need.he has voted to raise our taxes at the same time,he is a tax and spend liberal cut from the same cloth as the teddy kennedy make no bones about that.Ted Kennedy great spokesman for your campaign huh.

 

T7 what is the right reason?

 

Don,

Whatever the reson was, I think it was wrong, I do know what he said, do not know if that is why he really did it.

(Chenny made him do it )

 

I won’t get into a –your candidate is a loser and mines not debate- I could go on just as long about Bush and how he put us into the worst debt the country has ever known. I respect your vote and I hope you respect mine. That is what America is all about.

If we start on this course than we have left what the original topic was about which i fear we have anyway. Partly my fault.

I guess we got way off the draft huh?

Listen, I respect everyone’s opinion and I know we will all differ. It is nice to see that we can have a civilized debate and no one gets their feelings hurt. I have enjoyed hearing others views and I hope you all feel the same.

 

Good discussion.
After 13 June, you won't hear from me for awhile. I'm being activated for 1 year.

SGT Bates, MT
USMC

 

i hope everything goes well with you over there.

stay safe!

 

Thanks, I appreciate it.

Trained to fight, ready to kill, ready to die, but never will!

 

Marine,

Stay your butt safe Man. My buddy just left for Iraq. Helo Pilot for the Navy. He often flys you Marines around.

Don~

 

You'd think so. I think I've been on 1 helo that the Navy has piloted-even from aboard ship. For a total of about 30 minutes compared to approximately 75 hours that I've been on helos (Marine Corps pilots), and an exciting flight in Australia from an Australian Army pilot in a Blackhawk.

Thanks Don- When I get back, I should have enough saved up for a set of your injectors.

Mike

 

How exactly is it a conflict of interest? They do defense logistics, the war requires that, so they get contracts. War requires materiel and methods of getting that materiel to the front, and since the force draw-downs of the 90's and the resultant restructuring, logistics is one of the areas that was largely "outsourced." Given that this is not a trivial undertaking and happens to be their field of expertise, who else would you suggest?

If they were the only defense contractor in the country getting contracts you might have a point, but that's not the case. There's an ammo plant near here that's running full-speed 24/7 to keep up with the demand. Oh, and Cheney doesn't work there anymore, either.

 

OK I have set on the sidelines of this thread long enough.

The one-sided vision of our country, president and the war is a contributing factor to the sensationalism of the media in an election year. All to many people are ravenous for any information that the media can feed them. The problem; as I see it, is that we are surrounded by many portals of information, and in most cases this information is one-sided and driven to provoke a reaction from it’s audience. Yes, that is their right to freedom of speech, but to many individuals are too easy to accept something as the truth with out doing investigation on their own. This poses a problem with positive information that people need to be apprised of, is not passed on to the public for reasons I assume you can figure out for yourselves.

AS for Iraq, I have been in support of a war since the day we pulled out, the first time. We left a country of human beings vulnerable to a dictator that had committed scores of atrocities, used chemical and biological weapons on his own people and those countries that opposed him but could not adequately defend themselves (namely Kuwait.) He dodged the UN Resolutions from day one. Routinely fired SAM’s at collation aircraft patrolling and surveilling the No-Fly Zones. As a matter of fact; he kicked the UN controlled WMD Inspectors out of Iraq. His reasons for that I cannot honestly say, but I can speculate on what he could achieve by doing so. What makes anybody think that while he could hide a few Mig’s under sand dunes that he could not do the same with WMD. Even while inspectors were on the ground in Iraq they were not allowed to enter Palaces, schools, prisons, and in most case had to submit advance notice of a search. They had to submit a plan of travel to the intended sites; as well, and were accompanied by Iraqi Officials. Don’t kid yourselves, Saddam had time to move, hide, or transport to allies like Syria WMD’s. You also have to remember; UN WMD inspectors were not there to look for terrorist training camps. The military has provided proof that al-Qaida had training camps in Iraq, do you think Saddam had no idea they were there, he controlled that country, of course he did. UN Secretary of Treasury even aided the US in confiscating bank accounts that supplied many different facets of al-Qaida factions. That was only after the US provided proof that the UN could not disprove. There are countless facts out there that show proof that Saddam knew, funded and supplied al-Qaida terrorist. You just have to look for them, the general media does not readily publish them and some are still classified.

For those that believe that it is all about Oil, why? Yes, the oil-shelf under Iraq is quite expansive, but it pre- and post-war production rates are but a dent in the worlds supply. The U.S. with 4.5% of the world's population uses 26% of the world's oil. In 2001, the U.S imported 54% of the oil it needed, importing 11-12 million barrels a day and producing about 8-9 million a day to provide the 20 million barrels a day the U.S. consumes daily. Of those imports, 48% came from the Western Hemisphere and 30% came from the Persian Gulf region, with the rest coming from Africa and Europe. [Source: Energy Information Administration - 5/02] If anyone thinks that the US thought they would retain all of the oil benefits from Iraq the you are sadly mistaken. Yes, we have some of the largest oil companies but do a search on the top Oil companies and you will find companies from UK, Russia, France and Italy in the top 10. That may help you understand the Oil-for-Food scandal that some of the top UN officials are involved in, and maybe why Russia and France and so on were very confrontational in the adoption of a War Resolution. Don’t bite the hand that feeds you, so to speak.

It is too bad that the Iraq and Afghanistan wars have become a political quagmire, because of an election year. There was a time after 9/11 that bipartisanship was a thing of the past and the American people as a whole supported the war against terrorism and all those that harbored terrorists. Yes, the end of war was declared too early in Iraq and too many troop were sent home, but that should not mean that it should take another terrorist act on our soil to win support to reinforce our troops in both Iraq and Afghanistan. In the best interests of our troops, the military should be allowed to send more troops and equipment to begin a new all out offensive to root out the insurgency of fighters that hate our Christian beliefs, freedom, and economic power. It may be too late now, but a full offensive, not isolated patrols here and there, would bring the war back to the shoot-and run cowards. Iraq may not be a huge country, but it does take a lot of boots and sophisticated equipment to scour the entire country. We have achieved one goal of removing Saddam from power, and now we have committed to giving a civilization of human beings the right to live free of terror, and the ability to build a sustainable future. If we were to pull out now there is no guarantee that clerics like Al-Sadr would not instate the same type of regime that Saddam enjoyed. These people are still very weak and afraid, and who wouldn’t be after many years of Governmental atrocities and control.

AS for John Kerry and his view of World Politics, that scares the heck out of me. First of all he has not stuck to a solid plan of any type. I have never seen a person; except for one caught in a lie, that could flip-flop idealogies so much. My main worry besides increased taxes, reduced military spending is Kerry would rely on the UN world body for his decisions in International politics. That is a disastrous approach to our domestic as well as international interest. That; IMO, is just leading us down the road to UN policy control and the establishment of UN security forces on our domestic soil. Our own troops cannot operate militarily on our own soil; with the exception of the National Guard. It would take an invasion for that to happen, and we can feel rather confident that that will not happen any time soon. We are a world power with military bases all around the world in countries that we were called on to protect, we did so and lost many lives in all of them. Yet, many of these countries still see the need to **** us, even though we would be the first call they would make to protect them if it were to happen again. And guess what we would do it again. Kerry would be wrong to base political decision on the ideologies of the UN body. The staunch Democrat’s that will take any belief/stance as long as it is the opposite of what a republican belief/stance and vice versa is ridiculous and non-supportive of the USA as a whole. I loved it when Hollywood swore they would move to another country if Bush were elected. Did They? NOPE! Nobody else would put up with his or her crap like we do, anyway.

As for the EU as a whole that would take a whole other thread. They don’t like us for many reasons that we enjoy everyday. Oh well! Evidently you do not understand the American way of living that we Stand for. Yep, we are the worlds Band-Aid and and have the resources and the economy to do so. I think it would be quite comical if we decided to demand all of our loans to other countries due immediately. Recall all of our troops from around the world and position them along our border to stop the illegal immigration. That will not happen but it sure would make international politics interesting.

Anyway may God Bless our military Men and Women, Country and all of it citizens, and out great president!

Go GW, that’s the best choice we have, and thank God we have that choice!

Time for some

Kyle