PanteraGSTK

About two years ago my debit card numbers were stolen and somebody used them to buy some stuff. I still had my card so I never knew it had happened until my account was overdrawn significantly and my overdraft credit card had been maxxed out. The bank told me to call their fraud hotline and report it. I did that and they reimbursed me a certain amount and got rid of all fees etc. However, I was also told to put that amt on my overdraft credit card and the rest would be wiped and I would owe nothing. Thats what was supposed to happen. About 9mo go buy and I get a call from some collection agency telling me I owe them money from my overdraft credit card. This is the same account that has been closed (or was supposed to have been). I go to the branch bank where I had my account and they tell me they have nothing to do with the credit card as they are seperate withing the bank. They also tell me they can't look up any info because the credit card is a different company. I call the credit card company and they tell me that I never reported fraud and I had to pay. I told them that I reported it over the phone and was reimbursed and they said it had nothing to do with them because they were overdraft protection and not the bank. Huh? I told them that I was a student and was living off of student loans and my parents. My parents would deposit money for bills and I would pay them with no money in my account because of the fraud. They said that was my fault because there was no money and I should have known before paying my bills. WHAT? I try everything to figure out a way to fix this and have unsuccessful and now some lawyer has called me saying they purchased the debt and I have 48hrs to pay or they will sue me. It isn't even $500. He told me that if I don't get some sort of document saying I owe nothing on the overdraft card there is no way to get rid of the debt. I went to the bank and they say thier records don't go back that far. He said the credit card wouldn't need to keep the records since they sold the debt to him. If nobody has record of the debt or the fraud claim I did, how can there be a debt? They only keep record of debt and none of how it happened or anything else having to do wiht my former account? If I get a lawyer can they subpoena the records? How can they subpoena something that isn't supposed to exist?

Sorry to be so long winded, but do any of you know of anything I can do to get this resolved? I have the money to pay now, but I'm not supposed to be liable. Thanks in advance.

Patrick Campbell

I have never heard of a credit card overdraft protection but from what it sounds like is your had a credit card that had nothing to do with the bank, that would get charged if your checking account went below $0 ?

Didn't you get monthly statements from this credit card company?

It sounds like your debt was sold to a collection agency. In this case, it is most likely too late to resolve it with your credit card company. But you should've received many notices from the CC company first.

If they sold it, I don't believe the CC can take the money from you anymore. This lawyer "owns' the debt. Assume this guy is a complete scum bag and will lie to you to get your money.

I am pretty sure there are laws about harassment. I don't remember exactly what they are but for one, when he calls you, tell him that you are at work and ask him to stop calling you at work. Don't think they are allowed to harass you at work.

I would not pay the guy. Your credit is probably already damaged and I am pretty sure that paying him will not help it at all.

BTW, THEY CAN'T SUE YOU. An unsecured credit card is just that, unsecured. They can only report you to the equifax and the experian, etc.

IT sounds like you reported to the bank but never the CC. Regardless you should've been getting statements from the CC company. If there is a balance, they have to send you statements (?) unless you opt out.

Timmay2

Edited by Admin

Suggesting a member should commit a Felony would hardly be considered sound advice at ANY level

spunbearing

You have 30 days from the time that they notify you of the debt to dispute the validity of the debt. I would dispute the debt and demand that it is taken off of your credit report. I would also send a letter to the credit reporting agency to add to your credit report disputing the debt. Here's how you will dispute it. You need to go back through your debit card statement and find the charge that you paid them. It wouldn't hurt to go through your old phone records and find the records that show that you called their fraud hotline. Take this info and go to the bank and ask for the manager. Hopefully he is a nice guy and can make this go away. They need to recall the debt. The records will substantiate your claim. If he won't help you need to call the fraud hotline again. More than likely you won't get anywhere with them. I've learned the hard way that any time I talk to anybody about things of this nature I first ask their name, title, and employee number. I make notes on everything. You can't trust them. From now on keep records and document everything. Hopefully you still have your phone records and your debit card records. That's a form of documentation that will help you. Good luck.

PanteraGSTK

I tried to report it to the CC and they said the fraud was with my checking account and had nothing to do with them. However, the credit card was my over draft protection for the checking account.

And yes, this guy is complete scumbag. He called me at 7:00 at night and the next day he called my mother and my 70year old grandmother and devulged personal info to her and my mother which I'm sure is illegal.

The simple fact about the credit card is that when I signed up for it the teller did not tell me it was a credit card. I never recieved a credit card. I recieved a statement saying I owed $130 for "activation" for a credit card I never applied for or never recieved. I took my statement to the bank and told them I diddn't want the card and to erase the balance and cancel the card. The teller I gave it to said that this had happened a lot and the lady who signed me up was fired over it. I was also told by him that they would clear the balance and cancel the card. I got no statements for a year, then I get one and I suddenly owe over $500 on a credit card I thought to be cancelled. Now I was told that I have to get a lawyer to get the records to prove that what I just said actually happened. Oh boy. I may have to sue this bank. I was told by the govt. identity theft agency (name escapes me) that I need to turn them into the comptroller of currency for neglecting to do what they were supposed to.

Thanks for the replies.

PanteraGSTK

Tried that. The bank manage couldn't do anything because the case was too old and the records don't go back that far. The bank and credit cards are not associated so the bank manager couldn't even get my info from them I had to. They don't even have record of my account ever existing. I want to know how I can owe money on an account that they can't prove ever existed.

TomW

Manager is blowing smoke up your backside. They bloody well have records going back 2 years, and he doesn't want to do the work.

steven

Previous author is right, since the account was turned over to a collection agency, they, the collection agency, must comply with the Fair Debt Collections Practices Act. You have certain rights, you can do an internet search for more detailed information. I have not read up recently to see if the act has been amended. But, what you can do is dispute the debt in writing within 30 days. I would send certified with return receipt to show delivery. The agency must then show evidence of the debt. If they cannot, then they cannot continue to collect. That doesnt mean they wont try. In your letter, you must ask for a copy of the application, and copy of all correspondence and communication concerning the debt. You should also demand copy of all charges on the account from inception. This will force them to do some digging. I have found several collection agencies and credit card companies that have lost the application and cant even prove you had the card. American Express was one of those. I am a paralegal/law clerk and have dealt with this a lot before. When they respond, you must continue to dispute the debt. The downside is that they may assume you have no ability to seek counsel, and may issue a negative report on your credit files. You then can seek a claim against them, if they cannot prove you owe the debt, under the Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA). Do a search there as well. From my experience with these people, you dispute, dispute, dispute and tell them you are going to seek statutory damages against them if they proceed. Both statutes have damages, I believe each is $1,000.00 per violation. When they believe they are at risk, they will think twice. But if you do not show you have knowledge of the subject matter, they will go forward, even if they are in violation. They gamble. Most people never fight and end up paying eventually.

That said, you should continue to seek records showing you issued a fraud report. Regardless of who you issued it to, it is valid. The bank and credit card company may have been separate, but the bank had a fiduciary responsibility and therefore, a duty to process your claim by notifying the credit card company. If anything, it is a pass thru claim (not giving legal adice), just a thought i have. Tell the collection agency to seek a claim against the bank and tell the bank they are responsible to the credit card agency. Candidly, it has more weight from an attorney, you may want to find a real cheap one to do your letter under his letterhead. It will have more impact.

Hope this helps. I have no love for credit card companies, collection agencies, or lawyers that know something is wrong, but dont have the morals to stop it. Dont get me started on the bankruptcy reform act. Bad news for everyone.

V/R
Steve

steven

I forgot, they are in violation by disclosing information about your debt to your grandmother. Your letter ought to include the citing of the appropriate section under the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act and include the $1,000.00 claim against them for that single violation. Other violations include misleading letterhead and contacting you at inappropriate times or locations. You should record those conversations, if any, and photograph your caller id if they violation those statutes. RECORD ALL TELEPHONE CALLS. Most collection people become very agressive and say things that will violate the statute. Read the statute to better understand. The consumer protection agency has lots of good information explaining it.

V/R
Steve

04ctd

<click> book mark this Steven cat as a guy who knows something...

the picture of the Caller ID is innovative

Yes, time & persistinence is on your side,
send the letters, do the forms, bring all the legal points Steve made to bear in your letters to them.

basically, they are a thief with an office, and they will try to take money from someone else who won't inform themself & fightback.

PanteraGSTK

All I need to prove that I'm not liable is the records he wouldn't give me. I'm told that to get anybody to do anything I'll need an attorney. Now I have to find a cheap one. Oh boy more lawyers.

staarma

Even if the credit card company was charged from the bank for overdraft fees then by law a credit card transaction must be held for audit purposes. Also, as somone already pointed out, the fact that your personal info was let to your grandmother or anyone for that matter means you have a civil interest in this as well. The bank must also keep records of more than 2 years. They are trying to stay neutral and not get involved but they don't have that luxury. They are at fualt and know they have the chance of being sued too. You may want to secure a lawyer. Most will charge a small retainer fee and some will do the work if there is a payday in there for them from the opposing party. Just for advice though it shouldn't cost much.

Hopefully these people aren't ruining your credit.

For future reference, you need to call the credit reporting agencies to flag your accounts for you. This way there is an official record of it.

TPilaske

Read this article about Zombie Debt Collectors:

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/...ebt/P74812.asp


Tony

steven

That's what I am saying, send the letter, cite the Fair Debt Collections Practices Act, 15 USC 1692: specifically, 1692g. Here some sections of the code that you need to read:
§ 805. Communication in connection with debt collection [15 USC 1692c]
(a) COMMUNICATION WITH THE CONSUMER GENERALLY. Without the prior consent of the consumer given directly to the debt collector or the express permission of a court of competent jurisdiction, a debt collector may not communicate with a consumer in connection with the collection of any debt -
(1) at any unusual time or place or a time or place known or which should be known to be inconvenient to the consumer. In the absence of knowledge of circumstances to the contrary, a debt collector shall assume that the convenient time for communicating with a consumer is after 8 o'clock antimeridian and before 9 o'clock postmeridian, local time at the consumer's location;
(3) at the consumer's place of employment if the debt collector knows or has reason to know that the consumer's employer prohibits the consumer from receiving such communication.
(b) COMMUNICATION WITH THIRD PARTIES. Except as provided in section 804, without the prior consent of the consumer given directly to the debt collector, or the express permission of a court of competent jurisdiction, or as reasonably necessary to effectuate a postjudgment judicial remedy, a debt collector may not communicate, in connection with the collection of any debt, with any person other than a consumer, his attorney, a consumer reporting agency if otherwise permitted by law, the creditor, the attorney of the creditor, or the attorney of the debt collector.
§ 806. Harassment or abuse [15 USC 1692d]
A debt collector may not engage in any conduct the natural consequence of which is to harass, oppress, or abuse any person in connection with the collection of a debt. Without limiting the general application of the foregoing, the following conduct is a violation of this section:
(1) The use or threat of use of violence or other criminal means to harm the physical person, reputation, or property of any person.
(2) The use of obscene or profane language or language the natural consequence of which is to abuse the hearer or reader.
(3) The publication of a list of consumers who allegedly refuse to pay debts, except to a consumer reporting agency or to persons meeting the requirements of section 603(f) or 604(3)1 of this Act.
(4) The advertisement for sale of any debt to coerce payment of the debt.
(5) Causing a telephone to ring or engaging any person in telephone conversation repeatedly or continuously with intent to annoy, abuse, or harass any person at the called number.
(6) Except as provided in section 804, the placement of telephone calls without meaningful disclosure of the caller's identity.
§ 807. False or misleading representations [15 USC 1692e]
violation of this section:
(1) The false representation or implication that the debt collector is vouched for, bonded by, or affiliated with the United States or any State, including the use of any badge, uniform, or facsimile thereof.
(2) The false representation of --
(A) the character, amount, or legal status of any debt; or
(B) any services rendered or compensation which may be lawfully received by any debt collector for the collection of a debt.
(3) The false representation or implication that any individual is an attorney or that any communication is from an attorney.
(4) The representation or implication that nonpayment of any debt will result in the arrest or imprisonment of any person or the seizure, garnishment, attachment, or sale of any property or wages of any person unless such action is lawful and the debt collector or creditor intends to take such action.
(5) The threat to take any action that cannot legally be taken or that is not intended to be taken.
(6) The false representation or implication that a sale, referral, or other transfer of any interest in a debt shall cause the consumer to --
(A) lose any claim or defense to payment of the debt; or
(B) become subject to any practice prohibited by this title.
(7) The false representation or implication that the consumer committed any crime or other conduct in order to disgrace the consumer.
(8) Communicating or threatening to communicate to any person credit information which is known or which should be known to be false, including the failure to communicate that a disputed debt is disputed.
(9) The use or distribution of any written communication which simulates or is falsely represented to be a document authorized, issued, or approved by any court, official, or agency of the United States or any State, or which creates a false impression as to its source, authorization, or approval.
(10) The use of any false representation or deceptive means to collect or attempt to collect any debt or to obtain information concerning a consumer.
(11) The failure to disclose in the initial written communication with the consumer and, in addition, if the initial communication with the consumer is oral, in that initial oral communication, that the debt collector is attempting to collect a debt and that any information obtained will be used for that purpose, and the failure to disclose in subsequent communications that the communication is from a debt collector, except that this paragraph shall not apply to a formal pleading made in connection with a legal action.
(12) The false representation or implication that accounts have been turned over to innocent purchasers for value.
(13) The false representation or implication that documents are legal process.
(14) The use of any business, company, or organization name other than the true name of the debt collector's business, company, or organization.
(15) The false representation or implication that documents are not legal process forms or do not require action by the consumer.
(16) The false representation or implication that a debt collector operates or is employed by a consumer reporting agency as defined by section 603(f) of this Act.
§ 809. Validation of debts [15 USC 1692g]
(a) Within five days after the initial communication with a consumer in connection with the collection of any debt, a debt collector shall, unless the following information is contained in the initial communication or the consumer has paid the debt, send the consumer a written notice containing --
(1) the amount of the debt;
(2) the name of the creditor to whom the debt is owed;
(3) a statement that unless the consumer, within thirty days after receipt of the notice, disputes the validity of the debt, or any portion thereof, the debt will be assumed to be valid by the debt collector;
(4) a statement that if the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, the debt collector will obtain verification of the debt or a copy of a judgment against the consumer and a copy of such verification or judgment will be mailed to the consumer by the debt collector; and
(5) a statement that, upon the consumer's written request within the thirty-day period, the debt collector will provide the consumer with the name and address of the original creditor, if different from the current creditor.
(b) If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, or that the consumer requests the name and address of the original creditor, the debt collector shall cease collection of the debt, or any disputed portion thereof, until the debt collector obtains verification of the debt or any copy of a judgment, or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy of such verification or judgment, or name and address of the original creditor, is mailed to the consumer by the debt collector.
(c) The failure of a consumer to dispute the validity of a debt under this section may not be construed by any court as an admission of liability by the consumer.
§ 812. Furnishing certain deceptive forms [15 USC 1692j]
(a) It is unlawful to design, compile, and furnish any form knowing that such form would be used to create the false belief in a consumer that a person other than the creditor of such consumer is participating in the collection of or in an attempt to collect a debt such consumer allegedly owes such creditor, when in fact such person is not so participating.
(b) Any person who violates this section shall be liable to the same extent and in the same manner as a debt collector is liable under section 813 for failure to comply with a provision of this title.
§ 813. Civil liability [15 USC 1692k]
(a) Except as otherwise provided by this section, any debt collector who fails to comply with any provision of this title with respect to any person is liable to such person in an amount equal to the sum of --
(1) any actual damage sustained by such person as a result of such failure;
(2) (A) in the case of any action by an individual, such additional damages as the court may allow, but not exceeding $1,000; or
(B) in the case of a class action, (i) such amount for each named plaintiff as could be recovered under subparagraph (A), and (ii) such amount as the court may allow for all other class members, without regard to a minimum individual recovery, not to exceed the lesser of $500,000 or 1 per centum of the net worth of the debt collector; and
(3) in the case of any successful action to enforce the foregoing liability, the costs of the action, together with a reasonable attorney's fee as determined by the court. On a finding by the court that an action under this section was brought in bad faith and for the purpose of harassment, the court may award to the defendant attorney's fees reasonable in relation to the work expended and costs.

PanteraGSTK

I read the Act and he violated at least 6 different items. The bank in question violated 1. So, he basically owes me $6,000 and I owe him less than $500. Would it not cost more time and money to get the money out of him? I'm having a friend that is a lawyer write a letter to the bank requesting the information I need. I'm going to talk to my friend later this afternoon and include these violations in the letter as well. Thanks for your help guys, and I'll let you know if anything happens.