This one is getting pretty deep. I know I do not have any monkey or gorilla genes in my family tree. My ancestors were created, not evolved, and in my family we hang our towels on a rack. What do the muslims say about creation? and the missing link?

 

I need to rewrite my rant above tomorrow or something...
I just read through it and I got lost...


Anyhow, Muslim creationism is identical to Chritianity's beliefs. I don't think Muhammad ever talked about it...


Anyways, I've never been convinced against evolution from reading Genisis. Either if you believe in the gap between Genisis 1 and 2, or you believe in Deism or what not, Creationism and Evolution really don't conflict... At least not as I see it...

 

Really? There's less than a 2% difference between the genetic makeup of a human and a chimpanzee. If you have none of those genes that the rest of mankind shares with chimps, you must be an alien from outer space.

 

I'll be praying for all of you.

Look at it like this. Even if there is no God, which I know there is, then I still think you come out better in the end living a Christian life than a sinful one. You are taught to love one another, and do unto them as you would have them do unto you. How can that come out bad?

 

Here is something to read about the Koran
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=44324

 

Sure it would. Find some "honor" killings, some sermons about how Jews are a virus, etc. and I'll concede the point that fundamentalist Christians are as whacked-out as fundamentalist Muslims. Otherwise, I'm not buying it, and neither should you.

Little Green Footballs is a great source for a lot of what goes unreported by the elite media concerning Islamic fundamenatalism. It goes unreported for a lot of reasons--CNN admitted they were lying for Saddam prior to the invasion. Reuters has made a similar admission. They were engaging in dishonesty to protect their reporters, rather than refusing to report because of the danger, which would have been the more honest course. Some other elite media are, I suspect, just being PC.

 

Reading this thread has made me realize how many people are going down the wrong path. And no, I didnt come from monkeys either. If anyone believes that, then I got some swampland I want to sell you.

 

I dont understand the rationale behind their thinking:

"They have flushed our holy book of scripture, the book that supposedly teaches us how to love and treat others and be good people.

Hey, I know, lets go murder, plunder, pillage and rape."


Maybe its just me, but if somebody flushed the scriptures that I believe and follow, I still think it would be a good thing to follow them.

 

Wow-- a number of topics to cover.

First, on "how can God condemn people to Hell?"

God does not comdemn us to Hell. We condemn ourselves. Hell was NOT created for us-- it was created for "Satan and his angels", which are demons. But because sin came into the world (through Adam and Eve), God's perfect plan was ruined. We were never intended to go to Hell. But we were never intended to Sin, either.

Because God is Holy and no sin can be in Him or near Him, WE cannot be with him for eternity as a result of our sin. Thus, we are condemned to Hell to be with Satan and his angels. Remember, Hell was to punish Satan-- we were not supposed to go there originally. But when we sinned (as we all have), we condemned ourselves to eternal separation from God. Hell is eternal separation from God-- not just eternal torment.

So, bound by His own Holiness, God MUST send us to Hell as punishment for our sin.

But, He also made a way of escape for us. Because Jesus lived a perfectly sinless life, HE ALONE would not be condemned to Hell. But Jesus forfeited his sinless status when he TOOK ALL OUR SIN upon himself and died on our behalf. He did so voluntarily because God sent him to earth specifically to do what He did-- the live and die in the manner He did.

How could Jesus muster such courage and sacrificial love? Because not only was he sent by God, he WAS GOD. That's why he was able to show such indescribable love that sent him to die a horrible death.

Now, through Jesus, we can escape the condemnation that we were previously bound to. He has destroyed the separation between us and God by presenting Himself as a sacrifice that would allow for all of us to have our sin forgiven-- ERASED. The Bible says "as far as East is from West"-- that's how far He has removed us from our sin.

Don't fall into the trap of believing that you can get to Heaven by being a good person. First, none of us is good enough. The Bible says that "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." Moreover, "there is NONE righteous among men-- no not even ONE" (apart from Jesus, of course).

Additionally, the apostle Paul told us that "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God Not of works, lest any man should boast".

We can't save ourselves, though we need to be saved

 

Okay here are just three examples of Fundamentalist Christians that I was speaking of. While I’m sure you will disagree with me on these three because they deal with homosexuality and abortion the crimes were still committed by Fundamentalist Christians.

1.. A Christian fundamentalist cult known as the Branch Davideans opens fire on federal officers serving a warrant, killing several officers. Believing the US Government possessed by Satan, they committed mass suicide by burning their Waco commune to the ground claiming almost 90 lives, many of them children. Millions of Christian fundamentalists hailed them as heroes and martyrs, and insisted Satan in fact possessed the government.

2.. A Christian fundamentalist murders a New York gynecologist in the living room of his home. The killer was hailed as a hero for carrying out "God's Judgment" by many fundamentalists. Conservative columnist Cal Thomas blamed the murder on the doctor himself saying abortion "cheapens life." Authorities still seek the killer and at this time are trying to get him back from France.

3.. Matthew Shepherd, a 21-year-old gay man, was beaten nearly to death and left to die tied to fence post in Wyoming. With shouts of "God hates [EDIT]," some fundamentalists clearly expressed joy at the murder. Other fundamentalists claim AIDS is "God's punishment for sin." (They fail to explain why "God" would kill an innocent person who gets a blood transfusion and contracts AIDS. Original Sin perhaps?) The two thugs were caught and convicted of murder. .....

I could go on and on and on… you stated earlier that the Christian Religion has learned something over the last 600 years that the others haven’t. I personally don’t think that the Christian Religion or most any other religion, fundamentally speaking, has. I am not knocking the Christian Religion or any other religion for that matter. I don’t believe in any of them anyway. I am speaking directly about the Fundamentalist in every religion. People that take it to the extreme. While most of you Christians do not believe homosexuality is a choice you would never dream of going out and killing someone who is a homosexual. When faced with someone who has had an abortion you wouldn’t really consider killing them. Most of you think that they will pay for those “sins” when they meet god.

The Fundamentalist doesn’t think that way. The Fundamentalist thinks that they have to take matters into their own hands. They believe that they are doing the will of god by taking another’s life. They also believe that by taking their own life along with as many others as they can they will be rewarded in this so called heaven and be revered as a martyr here on earth. (anyone remember 9/11?)

Now all of that said… Christian fundamentalists only make up about 15% of the population and less than one-quarter of Christians in general. If you need anymore examples of Christian Fundamentalist just let me know. I have a whole database full of them. Just consider religion a hobby of mine although I don’t believe in it.

PASCAL’s Wager for those who don’t know:

If you erroneously believe in God, you lose nothing (assuming that death is the absolute end), whereas if you correctly believe in God, you gain everything (eternal bliss). But if you correctly disbelieve in God, you gain nothing (death ends all), whereas if you erroneously disbelieve in God, you lose everything (eternal damnation).

So judging by this most of you believe just to be safe?

I agree with you. I live my life better than most so-called Christians I know. I treat EVERYONE exactly as I want to be treated, which is much more than I can say for most Christians I know. I really have never met a more judgmental group of people. They will be the first to say you are wrong for believing what you believe and you are going to this so-called hell.

Your right. You didn’t come from monkeys. You came from a line of species that walked upright and had the intelligence to outsmart all of the other animals out there.
What I don’t understand is how it makes more sense for some people to believe in a talking snake, that woman was created from the rib of a man, that man has one less rib than a woman (you would not believe how many people still believe this), in a great all-encompassing flood, that all of the different languages were created at the tower of babel, that a man lived in the belly of a great fish (or whale or whatever) for 3 days, that this God spoke through a burning bush, etc.. etc..
It is easier for some to believe in this “mythology” (my words) then it is the facts that are out there.

What is pretty cool is that this post will make some of you so mad and upset that you will feel the need to respond and tell me that I am doomed to your hell and that I am full of c***. It’s pretty flattering really. Knowing something I write causes so much controversy.

Take it with a grain of salt guys. You don’t have to believe what I believe. In fact I don’t want you too.


Britt

 

Then what of love? Is it just an enigma in your eyes?

How do you explain the presence of love? If humans were trully motivated by nothing beyond worldy gain, why is love such an ubiquitious item amongst all of humanity?

What evolutionary measure protects love? What worldy, reproductive advantages does it bring? What other animal on the planet shares humanity's potential at complete economic abandonment and altruism?

Surely love gives humanity an infinite joy, which has a deep philosphical meaning even outside of Christianity. But you know as well as I do that you do not love in order to gain this joy. The question is not "what do I get out of love"; rather, ask yourself what motivates you to love.

Why do you love your wife and children? If you are nothing but an animal who lives on earth for no reason but to succeed and evolve, why has evolution preserved the completely illogical, irrational and insane selflessness of love?


Not a perfect arguement, granted. Human society is an uncomprehendable variable in shaping evolution, so who knows why altruism has been preserved. (Although religion has an uncomprehendable role in shaping society...) But still, if you look at Christianity philisophically it makes perfect sense.


I myself have no doubt on matters...

 

i assume you are talking to me?

believe it or not.... dolphins.

the same motivational factors can be said for the mother cat that goes into a burning building repeatedly to save her kittens.

it does?

britt

 

Not quite perfect then was it? or maybe hell is a contengcy plan?
Without sin, there is no true free will... You like the idea of EVERY action, EVERY thought, EVERY idea, EVERY movement, EVERY bit of your existance having already been planned? Why have ambition and a drive to suceed if its already planned to happen.


You forgot Ruby Ridge...


Im really hoping Im not human...



I think I got everyones post in the right order...

 

no... that was next on my list. along with eric rudolph and many, many, more.

britt

 

Not directly... I was really just being Socratic in your general direction...


Dolphins are supposed to be proven to have sex out of enjoyment (or so I've heard), but how anybody can deduce that they experience the selflessness which is love is a mystery to me... In humans both love-motivated and economically-motivated actions are convergent in appearance; unless the dolphin can tell you why he lives, then we can't deduce that he is living for love. (Yes, we can't' deduce the other way either, but I never said that this was the perfect argument...)

No; there is an economic reason for a mother cat to rescue her kittens. It helps her genes remain in the gene pool. There is a psychological reason for a mother cat to rescure her kittens; perhaps she enjoys the security in knowing that her genes are still in the gene pool, that her life is not lost or maybe she enjoys her kittens' presence.

And it can very well (and truthfully) be said that humans have the exact same motives for saving their offspring from doom. The remarkability of love is not found in actions; actually actions are unrelated to love in the first place. Love is instead found in human motivation and purpose as a subconcious (or divine) 'feeling', the complete abandonment of self-interest. For what? Nothing at all- while a good argument may be found if one says that humans love in order to ensure the correct physical and social upbringing of their offspring, I don't believe that to be the case. If that was all that humans were designed to do, why not leave upbringing to the same self-centered thought patterns that govern the cat. Why not leave raising children to worldy ambition? (Although, like the dolphins, it cannot be proven that the cat herself is not loving her children...)


And even if it is not proveable that love is unique to humans only, the main point still remains. Love is the exact opposite of worldy ambition. While the latter is the root of all logic, all society, all economies, all of the physical world and all of the abstract world, the former is the completely uneconomical and nonlogical selflessness which humans are forced to endure.

And do you argue that love is not an infinite, or at least what you percieve as an infinite, bliss?