Mike Wood

I have a few questions that you guys might be able to enlighten me on.
What year did Dodge stop using gear to gear transfer cases in the 3/4 ton trucks? I'm having a hard time justifying forking out $30K for a truck that has a freakin' chain drive unit.
How good are the axles they're using now? What are the most durable 4X4 years-driveline wise.
I'm getting ready to buy a Cummings powered 4X but will probably end up getting a used one and want the best parts. I am used to old 4X4's in the early 62's vintage with VERY durable parts. The brakes totally suck though.

CTD NUT

There are no factory equipped gear driven t cases anymore.....they are all chain driven and have proven very reliable. When the NP241 equipped in Dodge CTD's is used for it's intended purpose, they are quite strong and reliable. The first chain drive case to my knowledge was the NP203 that was introduced in the mid 70's. The last year for gear driven cases in a Dodge CTD was 93 when the last of the 1st gen CTD's came equipped with the NP205.

I would not be concerned about the chain drive case in the Dodges.....over the years, I have seen NP208's, 231's and 241's put up with an insane amount of abuse and not fail.......it is more rumour than fact that chain drive cases are not durable. Don't get me wrong, I have a soft spot for NP205's (have one in my Jeep), they are a great case and the most bomb proof factory case out there but don't sell the 241 short because you "think" it isn't strong....it is.

BTW, welcome to DTR....

Mike Wood

Thanks CTD, nice jeep, lots of time & bucks. I expect the chain units are easier to get out of 4wd, and the gas milage may be slightly better from reduced friction. I'm just very old school I guess and I definately prefer cast iron to an aluminum case- although they look quite thick.
How about the axles and manual 6 speeds they have now? I'd really like to get the Quad cab model but have concerns about the driveline reliability with the exception of the Cummins which I haven't heard anything bad about. I've got lots of gas experience but NO diesel- total rookie, but it is still internal combustion/piston so it shouldn't take me long to get up to speed.
I just want to keep it simple and HD reliable even if I have to go back a few years. 4 door started when?

displacedtexan

The quad-cabs apeared in 98.5 with the 24v engines...I have heard of one 12v quad-cab. I woluld kill for that truck if it was white instead of red.

The manual transmissions in these trucks are almost bomb-proof, especially the NV5600 (6 speed) The auto trannies... not so great. And the NV241 transfer cases are stuot.

Mike Wood

Thanks Tex, 98.5 & up for quad cab, what about rear disc brakes? Did the 98.5's have rear discs?
I'm still waiting to hear about the axles used on these things.
thanks guys.
Mike

Captain

they made 98 12v extended cabs. I almost bought one. I think the np241 was an option as a "heavy duty" transfer case. some cummins only had a 231. the chaindrive I think is what they call a vicsious drive and there suposidly ultra tough.. the 5 speed is a great transmition but the 6speeds from 2002 or so on are deffintly stronger. If you get a 3/4ton auto keep in mind your rear will be a dana 70 not a dana80. I prefer standard shift anyway. The dana 80 rear seems to be pretty hard to bust. I dont think there were rear disc's untill the 2001's or maybe even the 3rd gens? As far as the front ends.. Dodge has about the DUMBEST design for a front end ive ever seen. Espically on most of the 2nd gen's. your front dana 60 witch I understand is near its load limit allready has 3 axels beacuse the 2 peice passinger side is engaged with a vaccume acutuator for 4x4 when you flip the transfercase lever. This is a troublesome little peice that weakens tha axle (although I think you have to beat up your truck pretty good to still break it) the main problem is with engangeing disengangeing but theres a fix for around 200$ you can get a manual acuator that uses a cable you run into your cab and pull/push to engage it. this also allows 2wheel drive low range that i hear is great for backing up big things. Also theres no manaul locking hubs witch i like for durability. Theres aftermarket kits but there insane lik 1200$ The trac bar is also a problem. i dont know why they didnt make it leaf springs all around. The trac bar ball joint wears out quicky and cuases that death wobble but theres a fix for that too! Solid Steel makes a conversion bracket that bolts right in and uses a 2003 ball joint less trac bar. Works great. Also the with the heavy weight of the front end and espically if you add big tires it wears out the lower bearing in your steering box. solid steel has an additional bolt on stableizer for that too called a DSS I think. I also like that. And back to the rear breaks. You can upgrade the drum's stopping power with 2 13$ parts from napa. 1 ton chevy wheel cylinders. I put those in as well and I have no problems locking up the back wheels with 35" tires. Also the rear ABS seems to work for the first time ever now that I have the 1ton cylinders in. so basicly while they have there draw backs theres fixes for everything if you want to spend the cash. Over all I'm happy and with the minor modifications we have on our trucks I dont think we'll have any serious problems. Sorry for the long post. It probbaly makes little sense to anyone but me .
Chris

CTD NUT

For the record......NP231's were never behind a CTD or any other 3/4 ton and up Ram (far too small).....there are, however, 3 different versions of the NP241 : NP241 standard, NP241 HD and NP241 DHD. Viscous drives are old school full time 4WD technology and do not appear in any part time cases since there is no need to provide any type of torque bias or differential to the front or rear. Quad cabs were available in the 98 model year and the 24v engine appeared as a 98.5 model. The club cab was not removed from the options list until the 00.5 model. Rear discs replaced the drums in the 01.5 model year. And yes DC was successful in offering the poopiest version of a D60 front end ever......30 spline shafts, thin wall tubing, semi-floating stub shafts and unservicable sealed front wheel bearings along with the 2 peice axle shaft disconnect system...and I do miss the king pin set up - much more durable than ball joints - especially on these heavy trucks.....but I'll still take it over an IFS front end.

Mike Wood

thanks cap & nut- heheh. I don't know when they started with the coils in the front but I'm wondering if anything will swap in that's not super expensive. What about upgrading the current front end? I would much prefer manual locking hubs but I don't thing anyone is offering them anymore.
It sounds like the truck I'm looking at (3/4t-4X4-CTD-Quad-6spd) is a pretty good set up with the exception of the front end....and why would they yuck up a Dana 60 which in older forms was super durable. The unit there using now are Dana's? Is that what this American Axle or whatever used to be? I quess to get it the way I want I'm looking at 2000 and up. One of the main reasons (other than the CTD) of going with a Dodge over a Chevy is the straight axle in the front- IFS on a 4X4- I have no use for, unless it's some super high dollar long suspension travel set up. Even then, more parts = more problems. I personally LOVE the way a F&R leaf spring truck rides- it feels.....well, capable.

CTD NUT

AAM axles are on 03 and later 3rd gens only.....while I'm a big Dana fan, I'll give credit where it is due - AAM is making some stout stuff that easily competes with Dana.

The last year for a leaf spring front end was 93....94 and later 2nd gens have coil front ends. After messing with leaf springs for years, I have finally concluded that a link suspension will out perform leafs in every aspect when done properly. The Dodge 4 link/coil front end is very durable with the exception of the 2nd gen track bar link at the frame which does have several simple aftermarket fixes to eliminate the problem. You can convert the Dodge D60 to a full floating unit with 35 spline shafts and manual hubs with a kit from Dyna Trac but it is moocho $$$. A few guys have dropped in a Ford D60 and fabbed their own brackets. Unless your going to 'wheel a CTD hard, you will find that the stock D60 front end will hold up fine when not overly abused.

Captain

as far as the transfer cases go I knew there was an option for a heavy duty 241 witch we have I just assumed that the el cheapo one was a 231. But of course that would be to simple and they would need to make 17 or 24 diffrent models with the same number.

Crimedog

If I had a digital camera down here I'd take a pic of my t case. It is a 231D, under my hood says it is a 241D, but the tag is a 231D. It is the same length and width of a 241, but the center section is different. The rear output housing and speedo housing were from a 241, but the center section is not. It confused the crap out of me when I was trying to get housing parts. The place I ordered them from said that some 231s came in the 94s. I am completely confused by all of this, but the case has held up to sled pulling and snowplowing so I ain't gonna fix it until it breaks. In my gallery you can see pictures of some of the housings, maybe even the tag.

CTD NUT

This certainly is an odd ball since a 231 has a much smaller case/housing than a 241 and doesn't share the same input and output shafts or internals......it is literally a completely different t-case......sounds like DC was playing a #'s game.....if you saw the two cases side by side, it would be obvious.....one case belongs in a truck, the other in a Jeep. My 94 clearly has a 241.

CTD NUT

Just looked in your gallery.....can't really make anything out in those pics....but I like your plow!! It's a monster!

displacedtexan

There is a NV231HD, a truck case with a wider chain, came, maybe still comes in 1500s.

Crimedog

You can kind of see in my gallery, the one "inside the t case", if you look at how the center section is shaped, then look at a 241 you will see that the 241 center is "rounder", it's more of an oval. I think DC was really confused, also because on the build sheet it says 241 D but the tag still says 231 D. I looked at the 241 HD case on our 96 gasser and the center section really is a lot bigger on the 241... Also I noticed the fork pads were different than on the 241 when I replaced them, only on one fork, though...? Oh well...