Mike Wood

CTD Nut when did Dodge start installing the "poopie version" of their front axle.
MW

Mike Wood

I just found out that the new trucks have the T-case attached to the trans like a Chevy. I've never liked this arrangement. When did they stop with the Divorced T-case? They don't have a truck like I want in this area so I can't really go look at one. It would seem they would be a ***** to work on attached like that. Also I'm wondering with the Quad cab short bed how UNequal the drive shafts would be in length.

CTD NUT

The "poopie" version of the D60 started in the 2nd gens when they were introduced in 1994. Divorced t cases have not been offered since the 70's......what is wrong with a married case? I don't see what is so difficult about working on them? A QC SB Ram does not have front and rear shafts that are anywhere close to each other in length.....it doesn't matter anyway as they are completely different.....the rear is a 1410 series u joint and a 2 piece set up where as the front is a 1 piece with 1330 series joints and a t case mounted CV.

Mike Wood

Thanks for the prompt reply Nut, I've never worked on a married case truck. It just looks like the way NOT to make one. My old IH is gear to gear/divorced/"equal" length shafts- the way all should be IMHO, more ground clearance for the shafts and seperate components-easier to trouble shoot etc. I guess with a 2 piece axle the ground clearance isn't an issue.

robert chilton

Dont sweat the Xfer case thing. If you look close at a NP205 you will notice that the beefy cast iron case is strong but the bearings are supported by an aluminum cover!! I have never had a problem out of the newer cases and the chains definatly last longer than the old NP203 that I have changed more than once!!
The D60 front is definatly not the best design but it is still a D60 and far better than a D44. I am happy with it. If you have fab skills you could always look into converting a stouter D60 to your truck.
All the 2nd and 3rd gen stick trannies are stout!! The 5spd is nicer in traffic but man is that 6spd nice for hauling a load. You can really keep the cummins in the power band.
As far as which cummins is better is up to personal preference. I like the 12v better than my 600. Both are good motors but I feel that the stock 12V pulls harder on the bottom end than the 12V. The 24V has way more punch on the interstate stock. The 12V tend to get the better milage and are simple to work on for us spark plug educated guys as there is no computer on the earlier trucks for the motor. Just for cruise and alternator. Extra power is cheap and the 12V can be made to run with the new ones pretty easily. I think the older trucks are the better value if you want to keep it for a long time and dont mind dropping a few dollars into hooking it up. Same as owning a 69 camaro Hope this helps ya.

Mike Wood

How far back do you have to go; Robert, to get a non-computer controlled CTD?

robert chilton

Not exactly an expert on all the minor differences but I am going to guess early 98 back. All the 24V (98.5+) motors are computerized. All the 12V have mechanical injection pumps. I know that the 95 uses the computer for auto trans shifting (throttle position sensor), cruise, and alternator output but is totally mechanical for everything else. 96, 97, and early 98 are probably the same due to using the same injection pump. All of the first gen motors are mechanical injection pumps also. I think the first dodge cummins was 89 but that is a guess. Original cali trucks may be different though but I know nothing about them.

robert chilton

Mike is your 61 a chevy or IH? I used to have a 60 chevy that I gave up on about 6 months ago.

Mike Wood

Robert, my 61 is International Harvester baby , 4 door- shortbed/4X4-3/4 ton/4spd ex air force truck, it has the Black Diamond IL six, a very torquey motor with it's long stroke of around 5" as I recall (oversquare like the Cummins). Very reliable and capable 4X4. I just love old trucks. The brakes suck though . IH was the only factory producing 4X4- 4 door trucks like that back then, there were a few rare Fords/Chevys (I'd love to have a Chevy like that) but they were done by aftermarket companies. If you find one keep it.

I'm really leary about buying another computer controlled vehicle that I can't work on. Is there a huge difference in power between the 24 and 12 valve engines? I expect it would be more on the top end- highway towing etc. I wonder what the price difference is on the mechanical vs. computerized injection pumps? I'm sure the computerized version is more efficient but which one is more reliable and long lasting? I know that part on the Chevy/Duramax? engine is SUPER expensive.

It's hard to believe something that late of a model could be non-computerized, I guess since there is no spark necessary they're isn't much for the computer to do....I'm beginning to love diesels even before I get my 1st one...heheh.
MW

robert chilton

61 IH is a cool truck! I missed a chance on a good scout a few years ago. The 12V motors tend to be more torquey but have less top end than the 24V. This can be overcome by installing a new fuel plate into the injection pump and a 3GSK spring kit will allow it to rev. Check out the 12 valve forum along with the 1st and 2nd gen performance board. Lots to be learned from those guys. Many of them are making more power than the new trucks coming from detroit. If you get a 12V plan on making $600 in upgrades for power that is reliable. You need gauges so that you dont kill the motor. EGT can get high real quick and literelly melt a piston. Not much of a problem unless you are towing heavy. You will just have to keep an eye on it while running WOT for more than a few seconds. Even stock you can get some seious EGTs so dont be scared by this. Check out the fuel plates on TST site and they have a chart showing the power output that can be made. It will blow your mind. The 3GSK will keep the motor from defueling around 2200 RPM. The only down fall of the 12V second gen motors is that they have no timing advance. Same as running a locked out distributer in a gas race motor. You can only set the base timing. This doesnt seem to be a big problem though. You have a smaller RPM that is used compared to gas motors. Bump the base timing to 16 degrees and gain power and economy. The best part is all these mods probably wont cost you MPG!! Alot of people claim they actual get better milage if they keep their foot out of the go pedal. Once you get into diesels and mods you will never want another gas engine!! My 95 is stock with 305 tires and I am getting 18MPG in town And my drive to work is about the worst that you can do to it. I go 6 miles to work, 1 mile at 55, 1 mile of stop lights, then 4 miles of parking lot getting on base. I got my trucks a couple months ago and have almost everything sorted out so I hope to start modding it around christmas. The only thing you will need to check out is VA inspection. I am from the other side of the state and we dont have smog there. You guys may have a little more to deal with but I dought that its anything like the gassers. Proabaly a basic test or a visual for things like the CAT converter.
I can tell you are alot like me and prefer the older stuff. This tells me to avoid the 24V trucks. They can make good power also but the lift pump (fuel pump) tends to go south and takes a $2000 injection pump with it. There are ways to prevent this but you still have a computerized vehicle.

Mike Wood

Yeah, Robert the International's were very good (probably the best) trucks, as you go on up to the C130's (1 ton) they are pretty much grossly overbuilt. They used HUGE rearends like what you'd find on a small dump truck. PTO winches that will pull a medium sized house. IH used many Mopar parts on their trucks including the 727 TF on the automatic equipped trucks. Scouts were real cool too. I'm partial to the 1st gens though.

I take it EGT is critical on these. Is that to preserve the turbo? Do they come stock with a guage? TST site?? What is defueling? you mean running lean? I'm looking very seriously at a new one, it has to be a crew cab truck with a full back seat. I looked at the extra cabs and that won't cut it on a long trip with my family. I was told you can't find a modern CTD crew cab until 2003.

Interesting story: I got on the F150 owners forum (yes I was looking at the SD's too) and started reading all the Dodge knocks. Funny they don't even knock the Cummins. Anyhow, one guy was saying how they're putting a 350'000 mile motor in a 50'000 mile truck, Dodges are junk, the frame is flexable blahblahblah, now Ford's do have good bodie's, but my Dodges have held up very well to the beating they've taken, and I've had more trouble (expensive) with the Ford's.

I stop at the Dodge dealer and crawl under the new trucks to check out this "flexible" frame issue. Fully boxed frame from front to rear. I don't know how thick it is but it is boxed. Then I stop over at Freedom Ford (Norfolk,VA) to look at their SD F250's and low and behold I find a C channel frame- very thick, but OPEN. How can an open channel frame be stiffer than a boxed in unit? Is this Dodge frame super thin or something? The only thing the Ford has going for it now is the dealership. They are willing to bend over backwards to sell me a truck and the Dodge dealers don't seem to care if they sell me a truck or not....I WANT that Cummins though! It looks a lot simpler under the hood than the IH Power Stroke that the Ford has, and I guess they're using only the 6.0 now and that has a lot of issues from what I read.

robert chilton

The quad cabs came out back in 98. They just didnt sell as many back then. As for the rest of your questions, here goes. Diesel engines dont run lean. The air mix isnt critical like a gasser. The diesel will burn as much fuel as you can throw at it. This is why the EGTs are critical. You can burn enough fuel and generate enough heat to literally melt the pistons! The only other fuel problem would be so much fuel that it washes the cylander walls down. This is when the fuel takes the oil off the cylander walls and causes high wear not to mention fuel getting into the oil. This isnt a big problem unless you have a realy huge insane amount of power or a leaking injector. This would be the same concern as a gasser with a leaking injector. Defueling is where the fuel is cut back to limit engine speed. It is pretty much a govenor except that the motor will still rev past this point. Just at a deminished power return. My 95 defuels at approx 2200RPM but will still get up to 2800RPM under hard excelerating before I shift. I am just trying to have RPM after the shift so acceleration is good again as a 5spd is like an old 3 speed manual once you forget about granny and OD. No matter what brand you get you will have to add the gauges to it. EGT is the main one but fuel preassure (depending on injection pump and brand) and boost gauges are really useful to troubleshoot engine problems. I wouldnt worry about frame strength all that much. Most of that is hype. All the big 3 are throwing big power at it. I know that the chevy beds are weak and take special bracketry just to mount a tool box (I had an 03).

NHDiesel

I wouldn't say all frame strengths are strong. My father has a '99 Chevy (pic of it on my ramp truck in my gallery) and when a friend of his was loading a small skidder on a trailer behind it, he pulled it too far forward. Instead of the back of the truck going down and the front beginning to lift, the rear just dropped quickly and the front never moved...the frame bent right over the axle! He had to spend some time straightening it and plating it. I keep telling him to unload the Chevy and put the dump body on his '97 CTD...let a REAL truck to the work!

Jim

Mike Wood

NH Diesel- thanks for the post. That's exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about that could happen to me. I've been known to overload pickups before to save an extra trip or whatever. The truck works for me not the other way around. I just want it to be durable enough to handle it.

I've known about the shortcummins (couldn't resist) of Chevy trucks for years now. The worst rear ends, frames, and possibly bodies but I don't think many of us that have used and wrenched on SBC (particulary the 350) can malign them, very proven engines. Also the old Turbo 400s are pretty much bulletproof. The frame buckle does not surprise me though. What's funny is in the racing world Dodge is accepted by both Ford and Chevy guys as ok but between the two of them-it's war! It must be the Top fuel hemi thing. NOBODY beats a hemi. And everybody knows it.

I found a 2006 6spd Cummins at a dealer here by chance this week and tried it out. No surprises except that the engine won't rev! Probably my Diesel ignorance coming thru here. I know they're designed to run at low grunt but I didn't expect that you could put it to the floor in 2nd gear and the engine would just lay down at 2000 rpm! What type of govenor/fuel limiting does it use? How are you guys doing burnouts etc. I had to shift immeadiately in almost every gear- the thing had awesome torque. I could cruise around at 40mph in 5th if I wanted to- not a whimper. Is that how they're all set up? All governed down like that? This thing would barely go over 2500rpm in the lower gears. Not what I'm used to with gas engines at all. Enlighten me guys. The truck was a Mega Cab, 2500, 4x4, 6spd, Cummins.

Mike