"What is so great about FASS???"

It is a proven fuel system in more applications than just Dodge Ram CTD's.

It comes as a complete kit; pump, plumping, and wiring harness.

It works.

It has a 4 year warranty.

It gives me great peace of mind.

 

Great. The Red Holley outlasted the PE and the Aeromotive. Lets make it the pump we recommend to everyone, except that the darn thing is a carburetor pump rated at 4 PSI with a maximum output of 7 PSI. This pump might be working for you, but the law of averages says that when a company builds a pump rated for 4 PSI with a maximum of 7 PSI, it ain't going to run long at 15-20 PSI. At least the Holley Blue pump has a max PSI of 18, somewhat close to what it will see on the truck.

That is the whole gist of my posts. Lets start looking at the pump curves and see what they say with regards to our application. It doesn't make sense to install an under rated pump into the application.

Now did you take your PE pump apart and find out why if failed ? Did the motor burn out ? Did the impeller fall off ? Did the pumping element seize ? What about the Aeromotive ? Was it rated for diesel fuel ? Did they run a pressure regulator ? Did it ingest a bunch of debris ? Unless these questions are asked and answered and communicated, the community just keeps buying Carter pumps and replacing them because nobody questions anything and nothing moves ahead.

Now... if you want a diesel pump with a track record as you call it, go buy the Bosch that is in the Ford SDs. It gets installed on about 300,000 trucks a year. Lots of them are over 100,000 miles and no problems. It will last forever in a Dodge at 20 PSI.

Here is another point for you guys that love cam operated mechanical lift pumps. The '94-'97 Ford Powerstrokes (and T444Es) had a cam operated lift pump in the engine valley. They gave more trouble than the electric Bosch pumps do on the '99+ engines. There is nothing sacred about a mechanical pump. BTW: the mechanical pumps used to feed the VEs and P7100s on the 12Vers only had to supply a few (5?) PSI of pressure. Just about any pump can do that.

Your Red Holley might work OK for you. But the law of averages says that a fuel cooled, high pressure, gerotor pump with a 0.04HP motor rated at 80-100 PSI is going to last a lot longer.

 

"I was right!!! You "refuted" what "1trick4u" said BEFORE I sent my last post in! ****,......if nothing else you are "predictable" Superduty!!!!
Thanks for "reinforcing" that thought for me. This all goes back to what I said in my last post!"

Yeah, I'm about the worst SOB you can find. How dare I question that these engines need bigger return lines. Of course they do. Oh... just a minute... my engine is running stock return lines... Hmmm.... There must be something wrong with my engine and readings. I know... Lets all go buy bigger return lines for our engines ! Yes ! That is what I think we need to do ! Put another piece of crap on our engines to counteract the problem we have with the lift pump in the first place.

You are right. I should just shut up and let this crap perpetuate some more. What is that I hear... Another lift pump failure ?

UUUUGGGHHHH !

 

Almost! The mechanical pump feeding the VE's only had about ~5psi. They were a diaphram pump IIRC!

BUT, the pumps feeding the P7100's were piston pumps producing in excess of 45+psi depending on RPM!

Thanks for the great discussion,
Chris

ON EDIT! BTW, not putting you down or anything, just FYI! FWIW, the FASS, and all these other pumps would have never been tried had it not been for people like you going out on a limb trying them! How long did it take before people started listening,...???

 

Thanks Chris. I stand corrected. A cam driven piston pump would be pretty stout.

OK. Red Holley pumps rule. Buy two and carry one under your seat. You need to install bigger lines on your engine. And the regulator is better before the filter than at the injection pump.

And while we are at it... your fuel has has 10% air in it and it is robbing you of 20% of your power (about 65HP on a 325...), your stock engine needs at least 95 GPH of fuel flow and those Ford 6.0L engines run forever with very little maintenance. ROTFL !

Are we happy in Dodge land now ?

 

Well, guess what guys, I took everything and went my own way. Just got through pulling 2 Bosch Fuel pumps from 1-2004, and 1-2003 wrecked SD both with less than 40,000mi. Payed the pul-your own-part yard $50ea. I plan on running Superduty's type system, and keeping one for a spare. Whould I have done this if I allready had a FASS or Holley kicker pump? NO!! AS long as it was working fine. I do have some assurance that I can find this pump at any Ford dealer if I ever need one again so I've solved that delima. If this continues however I will be reporting it to the moderator. I don't believe Superduty is saying you have to go out and get rid of your.......(insert aftermarket fuel system here) as long as it is working fine and you are competent enought to monitor everything. He is just giving those who are looking to supplement, upgrade,or out rite replace their existing fuel systems with a cheaper/reliable alternative. Now lets leave it at that and be civilized.

 

StreetSmoker: could you put this in the Implementing a Walbro thread as well as your progress and, of course, pictures ?

Thanks.

 

What he said! I don't even own a 24v, but one of these days, maybe!!

I do have 2 friends that happen to come to me for advice though, maybe we can use this discussion, along with some commom sense and physics training we can figure out a good system for OUR own use!!

Thanks again for a great discussion guys,
Chris

 

Will do Superduty. Becuase I'm not comfortable with my own skills, and don't trust the Dodge dealer, I will be printing out your diagram and paying a competent Cummins diesel repair shop to do the install. I'll let you know how it goes. And to all those that wonder: my truck is well past warranty @ 127,000 and still running on the original cannister mounted LP. Does that meen I hold the record? If so what prize do I get?

 

______________________________________
Quote by "Superduty":

"Yeah, I'm about the worst SOB you can find.

______________________________________

Well,......YOU SAID IT "Superduty", not me!!

-------
John_P

 

streetsmoker:

Heck yeah, you have the "award" IMO!!!! Darn, that is the LONGEST one I think I have EVER heard of! Congratulations!! See me at the next diesel rally and I'll buy you a beer!

--------
John_P

 

The aeromotive pump (AEI-11203) is a friggin carburetor pump ! Max pressure is 16PSI. The guy buys a pump with a max pressure of 16 PSI, runs it at probably 20 PSI and then it fails. I wonder why ?

Ya gotta love how Summit promotes these things. They list the pumps max pressure at 16 PSI in the specs and then a few lines down they list

========================================
Features include:

* 900 lbs./hr. of fuel flow at 13.5 V
* 18-20 psi fuel pressure
* Highly durable pumping mechanism guaranteed to never wear out
* 3/8 in. ports
* Alcohol compatibility
* Low amperage draw
========================================

Obviously they have no idea of the concept of rated pressure and maximum pressure.

And this is another 150 GPH pump. Now I would like to know where all these big, big engines are. 900 pounds per minute / 0.5 BSFC (gasser) = 1800 HP. Why, why, why ???

It doesn't say it is rated for diesel either.

http://store.summitracing.com/defaul...=egnsearch.asp

 

Back to the subject of this thread:

I don't see any functional difference between your (Superduty's) fuel system and the FASS system. In fact the only difference that I see at all is that the FASS pump motor is not fuel-cooled. Oh, and of course that your system was ~1/3 the cost (important point, I'll admit!).

Your assertion that fuel cooling is the key to motor longevity is a compelling one that I don't dismiss, but as far as I can tell, it's unsupported by any real evidence.

So, FASS:

- Expensive
- Air-cooled, gerotor pump
- Spin-on filters
- Easy (ish), all-included install kit

Your system:

- Cheap
- Fuel-cooled, gerotor pump

 

FASS is a big volume pump. The volume isn't needed.

I think it is medium pressure pump, but I'm not sure until I see a curve. Medium pressure is 40 PSI+. But I've seen threads where people were having trouble with maintaining 20 PSI. I can't comment at this point.

The regulator is in the FASS pump. It should be at the injection pump.

The water separator is nice. The 10 micron filter is redundant due to the engine already having a filter.

 

Thank you very much for this thread Superduty, it's really appreciated.

I posted awhile back about an alternative to the in tank pump the dealer put in my truck under warranty. Back then all I got was do it right and go with a FASS or Holley blue. I didn't want to do either because I hated the price of the FASS and a friend of mine had problems with the Holley.

The alternative I had in mind is a Toyota EFI in tank pump. They are very reliable, I've only replaced one in my 4runner in the last 10 years and I have 2 spares sitting on the bench. These little pumps put out 38-42 PSI at around 42GPH. I read here awhile ago that a minimum of 1.4Q per 25 seconds was required so I dropped the idea but according to your calculations 42GPH is plenty of flow for my needs. I don't have flow charts on this pump but is sounds like it will work just fine and won't be overworked at all. Thoughts?