Agreed.
If American manufacturers had listened to this guy earlier, maybe their quality would be better: W. Edwards Deming
He came up with "Total Quality Management" and the Japanese listened to him, but the US didn't.

Here are his "14 points"
1. Constancy of purpose
2. The new philosophy
3. Cease dependence on mass inspection
4. End lowest tender contracts
5. Improve every process
6. Institute training on the job
7. Institute leadership
8. Drive out fear
9. Break down barriers
10. Eliminate exhortations
11. Eliminate arbitrary numerical targets
12. Permit pride of workmanship
13. Encourage education
14. Top management commitment and action


~Rob

 

I never knew that. he is absolutly brilliant. i need to get his book.

 

I`m not sure if anyone has posted this idea/thought BUT,
I sincerely hope that the big muckety mucks that are "running" (into the ground??) the "big"3 take a look at this, and many other similar forum topics I have seen recently. MAYBE they`ll get a clue??

 

amen to that brother , could not have said better myself !! i too have had a few 4runners and pick ups in the past 20yrs and i have had my 4runner rock cralwe for 11yrs i have put 500,000km on it most on the road before it became a rock crawler .. it has never seen an engine swap just a couple head gaskests ... and idoesn't burn an once of oil .... gotta love em !!!

 

Well, when an engine goes for 200-300,000 miles, one would expect to replace things like water pumps, head gaskets and clutches. Water pump and head gasket problems were commonly the result of running no antifreeze, or never changing one's antifreeze, and the aluminum would rot out eventually. It was worse in the late 80's and 90's trucks for sure. I had an 82, which was and still is built like a tank. Front end stuff? I drove my Toy for 80-90,000 miles of hard country driving, usually on poorly made dirt roads, towing a portable sawmill and skidding logs with it. I once had to make an adjustment in the drag link (which was made to be able to take up slack). That's all the front end stuff I ever had to deal with. I did go through brakes, shocks and tires, but any truck would have done that on those roads. Yeah, I replaced a long block when a head gasket blew in a messy way because of the antifreeze problem, and then I replaced the head gasket on the replacement engine because the wrecking yard I had bought it from put a felpro head gasket in instead of a proper OEM toyota part and it blew. I did have to rebuild the tranny at 216K when it started popping out of 3rd. Rust? Wasn't too bad really. There is some, but no big holes or anything.

My dodge ?(which I LOVE btw)... Tranny rebuild at 190K and I'm about to replace my 3rd drag link in 80,000 miles. Paint has been falling off for three years, and the guy I bought it from had had the hood and cab repainted because all the paint fell of of that too. Whole instrument cluster has gotten worse until now the volt gauge is the only one I can count on. Headlight switch has been replaced several times because it can't handle trailer and marker lights. Seat is almost broken down completely.

I don't see how toyota is "jap crap" and Dodge is some shining beacon of American know how...

I wish I had an 82 toyota 1 ton 4x4 with a turbo cummins engine in it... Now that would be a nice truck!

 

The trucks I was speaking of had less than 150,000 miles at the time. I've not seen any better reliablity out of the toy trucks than I've seen out of all of my trucks for the past 20 + years and they weren't worked even half as hard as a full size real truck on a farm is used. You don't see many Toy trucks running up and down the highway with 14000-16000 pounds of hay or equipment on the back or a 30 foot 5th wheel or 4 horse slant load horse trailer. They should outlast an American full size since they aren't used as hard and only weigh half of what a full size truck does to begin with and the only cars that company makes worth owning are the ones from the Lexus line-up. I don't care for their econo tin cans.

 

And an 82 Toyota wouldn't have a body left on it in this part of the country. We have several 92 and newer models on the lot that are completely rusted out or have been bondo'd in and repainted. Their mid 90s trucks rust like a mid 70s GM truck.

 

If they made a truck with that kind of capacity I bet you would. If you want to compare apples to apples just look at the Toyota pickups vs. Chevy S10s, Dodge Dakotas, and Ford Rangers of similar vintage. My uncle's '91 compact truck (22RE/5 speed/4wd) has 190K on the clock, no rust (the paint problems were fixed in the late 80s), engine and drivetrain are solid as a rock, burns no oil, everything in the dash cluster works, etc... My brother's '91 S10 (4.3L V6, 4x4, auto) is rusting to pieces, needed a new engine at 150K, a rearend just recently, has had multiple in tank pump/float issues, the seats are jello, and practically nothing works inside. Same thing happened to my Mom's '90 Blazer.

 

I guess you could call that a comparison, I owned a '93 S10 4.3L auto, only good things about that truck were the engine/trans and only because there are a million aftermarket upgrades available for both. suspension, steering, interior, frame, et cetera all sucked compared to yotas of the same age that my friends drove...and still drive. I mean don't get me wrong, it got the job done that I needed it for as a simple inexpensive vehicle for college commuting, except that I almost died in a car accident in it. no comparison to a yota though.
I'd probably get a 3/4 ton inline 6 diesel yota handsdown over a new dodge.

 

Do never ever misinterprete what Toyota is doing. They are from Japan, when they want to do it right they do it right. They have an edge in quality control. Now if they can get a 1 ton diesel into their line up, be prepared, they wont´t do it wrong. They learn from every failure one of your domestic producers and the European producers make. That´s why they´ve been so successful in the past. And they will be successful in the future. They know they can only be successful when they offer a well known engine brand into the play, Cat, Cummins for example. That will bring the hardcore truckers into their game. Then the "crowd" will follow. It´s quite easy, understand your contenders and try to be better. That´s how the whole thing works. And Toyota is certainly in the know how to bring the whole Pick up truck market a step up. The biggest hurdle is their "respect" as most want to buy domestic trucks. But they are clever, building plants in the U.S., buying parts from american companies. I´ve looked at the new Toyota truck and it looks great. I´m quite young, being 25 years old, but the styling is great. Young buyers will mostly buy what seems to be great looking and driving in their eyes. Toyota won´t get this wrong.

Toyota 1 ton built in the U.S., with space, reliability and a really good diesel engine/tranny. Who do you think the young guys will follow?

It´s all about the future and it´s gonna be really tough for the domestic brands...

 

[QUOTE= I´ve looked at the new Toyota truck and it looks great. I´m quite young, being 25 years old, but the styling is great.[/QUOTE]

What do you mean you've seen it? 1-tonne? Where? Share the info. please.

 

I agree with everything you said but I don't think most want a domestic truck. It's just up to now that's all that's been available. Anyone who knows anything knows that "domestic" doesn't mean anything other than where the headquarters are located.

People want quality and reliability at a fair price. If Toyota uses cummins there will only be two diesel contenders: chevy/dmax and toy/cummins. No one in their right mind would buy a Dodge with an untested mercedes diesel, same with the new ford diesel.

 

AFAIK the mercedes diesel is far from untested being run in a lot of the big delivery trucks and medium duty trucks around the world. my brother has run into it in other countries and our snap-on driver just got a new truck last year with the inline 6 mercedes, absolutely loves it.
I think it'd be awesome if dodge/mercedes went up against toy/cummins with the inlines!! I'd see the yota being the hardcore work truck and dodge turning into the classy road queen so-to-speak, but still with a straight axle.
where did this toy/cummins thing start anyway? I thought yota was already using an inline 6 diesel and I don't mean the one that was in the land cruiser 40 years ago, I mean something recent...anyone know anything about that?

 

Yes, the race for the smaller high MPG diesels has already begun.The horse power race is going to bow to the small diesel race.Chrysler is the first with thier diesel liberty,out of the big three.I've read everything from the duramax v6 to the power stroke v6 to toyota, nissan to several other players.The price of high fuel costs is just beginning and the auto makers know the appeal of the diesel engine.I had a 83 datsun/nissan maxima with a straight 6 diesel, the same motor they used in thier 1 ton and 2 ton trucks over seas, It got 42 mpg . The percent of diesels to gas powered vehicles in europe is more than 50% from what I have read and the U.S. is headed there.The diesel technology is moving at a very fast pace and is only slowed because of the clean fuel regulations for diesel that recently came into effect.That is why the smaller diesel models won't be out for a couple of years, like the toyota diesel or the jeep GLADIATOR diesel . So we can sit back and watch the evolution of the new small high milage,high MPG diesel that the auto makers are now forced to produce.Something they should have started A decade ago.We will always need the big trucks for pulling and working,for those who need it but for those who pull a lighter load occasionally and want reliability and good mpg along with low end tourqe there will be something in a diesel that appeals to you. Hopefully.....

 

About the whole 'quality' thing:
The 'Big 3' Auto manufacturers only care about enough 'quality' to make the vehicle last throught the warranty period. It's been this way since the 1980's. 'Design for Manufacture', 'Failure Mode Analysis', etc. are all things that were developed to achieve this goal. They don't want to make the 'Million Mile Truck', they want you to buy a new one every one or two years. Things have been getting lighter, cheaper every year, not to save YOU money, or get YOU better fuel milage, but to make more PROFIT and meet the EPA mileage requirements. Nothing more.
The people that constantly have trouble during the warranty period, and the ones that have the truck with 300,000 miles and no problems, are the ones at the very ends of the spectrum. The largest group is in the middle, the ones that 'trade up' every year or so, these are the people the auto manufacturers care about.

Everything old is new again:
I laugh everytime I hear an advertisement where one of the Big 3 mention that their cars/trucks/whatever get 30 MPG+, like this is something new. I had a 1983 Mitsubishi diesel pickup that got 42MPG. My junker diesel Olds Cutlass never got less than 28MPG. I even once had a 1982 Honda Civic, that thing would regularly get 30MPG. Where's the innovation? Heated seats? DVD player? OnStar? It's the same old drivetrain, with some cheap new bells and whistles around it.

I haven't owned or worked on any foreign vehicles that were newer than 1987, but what I can remember of the ones I had is that they were reliable, easy to work on, and got good fuel economy.

And if it wasn't for the EPA, we'd all have the choice of any vehicle we want, with a fuel-efficient diesel engine. But thanks to them, if you want something like a Diesel minivan, you have to 'frankenstein' one together by yourself, and hope you live somewhere without emission inspections.

OK, enough ranting. I've read too many bad auto industry posts for the day, had to vent somehow...