M0J0

I'll be a greedy bast^rd. Gimme 30 mpg diesel in a vehicle that does not eat LPs and VP's

maddog55

Yes they did. I saw a bunch of them when I was stationed in Panama 1986-1989. There was a dealership in Panama City itself. They were selling like hotcakes. They were quite prolific in Central and South America when I was there.

MADDOG

maddog55

Well, that is not a fair comparison. The Corvette was a Muscle car and still is, and it is not a passanger vehicle. Its more like a rocket with tires. In fact there is a lot to be said about its staying power. It has been in continuous production since when, 1955 or 56? If money was no object, I would love a Corvette. In fact, even with money being an object, my wife has always wanted one. But what is the functionality of a Vette compared to a Camry or an Accord? They also require a lot more down time for warranty work,/maintenance than the Japanese stuff. Hell, even Mercedes and BMW have lost the quality control edge to the Japanese.

I does not matter what kind of design inovations and electronic contraptions they put on cars. Three and four valve per bore, ceramic cylinders, multiple cams and multiple displacement engines may sound great for marketing a new vehicle, but what about actual performance, economy, durability, and reliability? What American mid size car is out there that performs and behaves as well as a Camry or Accord? What American, or even European car has better safety ratings that Honda or Toyota?

I told the story of the UAW guy who accused me of being unpatriotic because I brought back a Mercedes Turbo diesel from Germany in 1983. The other part of the story is that I bought a 75 dodge ramcharger in 1975 when I was commisioned and sent to pilot training by the USAF. The first year I had that vehicle it spent seven months at the dealer for warranty work - sometimes a month at the tome. My money that I paid for that Dodge never came back for warranty work. I even had to hire a lawyer to get the corporation to pay attention to me. I may haver not worked as hard as some of you for the money I was making as an Air Force officer, but I put my life on the line on and off for 23 years. That has to be worth something. So, why should I not expect something worth it in return.

As I said, that old, old, old 83 mercedes turbodiesel wagon is still running with 325,000 miles on the clock. The Ramcharger never got fixed right even after my lawyer forced them to give me a six month extension on the warranty. I swore then and there I would never buy another American car until the car companies got their stuff together. I kept the Ramcharger and swapped axles, rebuilt the tranny and transfer case twice, and had an engine built to my specs when I returned from Germany in 1983. I sold it in 1990.

I have to say that they have realy improved in the quality and reliability of their light trucks. I love my 99 Dodge 4X4 diesel. I think it is the best. But until I see the results I want to see and that all of us as consumers should expectfrom our American car companies, I am not buying any American passanger cars.

Do not be to upset about my opinion because ultimately, opinions are like a.. holes - everybody has one.

Have a great Memorial Day guys!!

the MADDOG

big jimmy

I hope Toyota makes a better seat. I'm a pretty big guy and I don't think the seats Toyota puts in their trucks are good at all. In fact I think they are the worst.

Big Jimmy

Dirty Water

Every innovation you listed there was done long before by european and japanese companies.

You have to realize that without foreign competition, GM would still be using the original '50s vintage SBC block.

mcoleman

I have a lot of friends with the Toys and I haven't been inpressed with any of them. They tear up just as often as the other trucks out there. Headgaskets, clutches, and waterpumps are common failures on the 22R engines and the frontends (tierods etc..) seem to have a lot of failures when the trucks are actually used as a truck. The bodies would rust off of the Toyota's before the trucks were even paid for. They seem to have fixed that around 2000 or so but I have several friends with mid to late 90s trucks that are rusted completely through. I guess they make decent daily drivers if you don't mind driving a rust bucket with the interior of a Chevette and the ride of a buck board wagon. They do get better gas mileage than GM's poor excuse for a small truck the infamous S10. Also another contributor to the rust wars.

Mcmopar

Read the original post, I was commenting on what has been done, not why! The government regs dictated more of these changes than the "foreign" influence.

BlueDevil

Talking to the owner of a Toyota dealership, he was under the impression that it is going to be a Cat motor in a full size truck that will rival the size of the big three.

Spooler

That is the same rumor that was said about GM . (CAT Motor). You see they have a Duraslack at this time.

Mcmopar

My thoughts exactly.

HOHN

I would buy a Toyota diesel as a favor to the American producers. That way, when they have to compete for once instead of selling products to brand loyal sheeple, they will build a better product than anyone, and beat the Japanese on a level field.

And if they lose (which they won't), we end up with a better truck for less money.

Sound win-win to me!

P.J

I agree, but wouldn't be so quick to decide "they" won't fail in the end anyway........
The US auto makers are arrogant, pompass bums. They deserve whatever elevated level of quality and valueToyota and/or Nissan is going to make them match up to!

HOHN

I disagree.

I think competition had a lot more to do with it.

Gov't regs forced them to do 5mph bumpers. What did they do? They slapped on huge pads on 1973 and newer models.

Gov't forced them to move to unleaded fuel. What did they do? Nothing, until valve seats started failing.

GM was pumping out one gutless miserable land barge after another in the 1970s. Meanwhile, a little motorcycle company called Honda starts selling a little CIVIC and people buy it. Even though it's "jap crap", it's cheap and appeals to people of modest means.

Then comes another gas crunch on that smaller "jap crap" happens to get good mileage.


Somewhere along the line, people realize that the Honda not only is low cost, but it actually holds up pretty darn well, thank you very much.

Sometime in the mid-80s, Honda started picking up some steam and became a bigger player in the market. Meanwhile, The "big 3" are pumping out K cars and "performance" models with 225hp (Mustang 5.0).

The major Japanese players (Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mitsubishi in that order) really took off when a couple of them lauched upscale divisions: Acura from Honda and Lexus from Toyota.

Unlike an American undertaking in the market, the cars were REALLY good RIGHT AWAY. No need for years of the CUSTOMERS finding our what's wrong with them.

The success of the Japanese companies is simply a result of making better cars while doing a better job of running their business-especially the latter.


Meanwhile, porky American automakers, beholden to obsolete unions and a bloated management bureaucracy killed off certain brands in an effort to find save money and sort out the brand identities that were androgenized during the era of "corporate" this, where we pursued the brilliant strategy of making the same car and marketing it different ways. Don't like a Dodge Caravan? That's ok-- you'll love the Plymouth Voyager! Then there were the triplets like Eagle Vision, Chrysler Concord, and Dodge Intrepid.

GM did plenty of brand raiding too, with twinning and tripleting vehicles, and they STILL haven't figured out what they want Buick to be! (though it's getting better-- they just need to ditch the Rendezvous/Aztek monstrosity).

Meanwhile, no one is mistaking a Lexus RX330 for a Toyota Highlander, though they are essentially the same vehicle. (though the Lexi (Lexuses?) tend to make more power).


I hope the Japanese start building full-size trucks, and do BETTER. They will teach the Americans another lesson (again) about the business. We'll all be better off when it happens.


Aside: In America we pay attention to sports and in high school, we glorify the star quarterback who usually grows into a pot-bellied gym teacher with bad knees. Meanwhile, the Japanese compete intensely in things that MATTER like engineering, math and science and they go one to do things that have more economic value.

Then we wonder why businesses get outsourced to other countries that value education more than athletic ability!


America: heal thyself!


jmo

Mcmopar

I agree with that statement wholeheartedly---Millions and millions of dollars for some moron who can throw a football or "act" ---Please.

RustyJC

Justin,

Yep, that about sums it up. To amplify what you said, neither my previous 1999 Honda Civic Si (8000 RPM redline, 160 BHP from 1.6L) nor my current 2003 Acura 3.2TL-S has ever been in the shop for anything other than routine maintenance. To be fair, neither has my 2002 Ram.

Rusty