bdramsey

Are you saying that it was CHEAPER to build the roads in the first place than it is to MAINTAIN them?

In registration taxes, and toll fees are what is specified here in Texas, but then again we pay the same taxes on a vehicle EVERY time it changes title holders.

I would have thought that it would have been more expensive to build the roads, and highways than to maintain them. Cities now use thier local taxes to fund pavement expansions. At least here they do. When you see a new project it says "Here is 50 million dollars of your tax money at work". The gov is not going to lose money, however it is in thier best interest to raise the price so that thier percentage goes up. I mean does it cost more to build a road or maintain a road in the month of Sept than it does to build or maintain a road in August?

chaikwa

I didn't mean to be argumentative by my query of fuel taxes vs. tolls, and it may well be the case that fuel taxes go to rebuilding, while tolls go to construction. But they almost always place those 'Your toll money at work' signs at the beginning of rebuilding projects on toll roads, so that either blows the theory explained above or raises issues of misrepresentation.

Ain't government grand?!

chaikwa.

Floorman

well the agent told me red stays for awhile and then she said if i have been in the area awhile that i was fine. i have all my reciepts for fuel and have been fueling up in either cary at the bp with 20% bio or on 50 in garner same fuel and i hit the station on 42 reg diesel. and i have run atleast 8 to 12 tanks through sine riding on 95. and what if i was in florida 2 wks ago red would still show correct? i say if its no atleast 50 % red then bite me? cause it would prove im not running it.

they havent met my wife yet let them start there ****

phox_mulder

You could have a tank of regular ole greenish gray diesel,
add a quart of red food coloring.
It would appear to be quite red, but when they test it in the lab it wouldn't show up as "red" at all.

The dip test is looking for the color,
but the real lab test is looking for the chemical tracer that they put in with the red dye.

If you have honestly never had the red stuff in the tank,
there wouldn't be any chemical trace to be concerned about.

If you had ran red many tankfulls ago, even after 8-10 tanks of the good stuff, there still might be enough of the trace chemical to garner you a nice fine.

Not worth the risk in my book, with the rising cost the number of dippers is sure to rise.


phox

ten8fiftyone

Quit trying to be penny wise and pound foolish.

The govt. could easily put a stop to the red issue. Tax all diesel sales the same and make users of red file each year for a refund of sales tax. What a PIA that would be for those of us who use it legally.

Yeah its tempting, just like scootin down the highway a short ways on your off-road MC or quad. And it probably isn't going to hurt anything in the long run. But if enough people get caught doing it, ALL of us will eventually end up paying the piper.

The bottom line is that we pay too much tax!!!....Add that on top of a bunch of greedy, scum sucking energy speculators on Wall Street, and the average slob like you and I get hosed.

The problem is, that in spite of the taxes and rising oil costs, we keep sucking the stuff up like bloated ticks. We need to park our rigs and walk for a month and then see what happens to the prices!

RustyJC

Are you sure you didn't refer to my previous post by mistake? I said absolutely nothing regarding the relative costs of construction and maintenance.

The premise is that fuel tax money flows into a budget bucket that's dedicated for roads. Whether the money is then used for road maintenance or construction is up to TxDOT and their priorities for that fiscal year.

As I said earlier, if you don't like the fuel tax system wherein the amount one pays is directly related to his usage of our roads, how would YOU fund it? As I tell my employees - I don't need problem identifiers; they're a dime a dozen. What I need are problem solvers. If you think fuel taxes are a problem, let's hear your solution. How would you fund road construction and maintenance?

Rusty

induchman

When the State of Montana stops you and dips your tank, it's because someone at the fuel station called them out. You're guilty, they have the film and you know it. The ticket and appearance time is already set in stone. You can argue all you want, bring a mouthpiece if you want, but you're gonna pay the fine. Then the IRS gets involved. Then you're cooked, esp if you've been doing it a long time.

Maybe that's why we can't find any 12 valves in our two state area for sale. The mechanical pumps handled the red-dye easily. The electronic pumps do, but don't last long.

We pay a pittance when compared to Europe. 26% tax here vs 75% tax there. Are their roads any better? Not in the UK or Ireland. Only the autobahn in Germany, otherwise they're pretty poor. So where does the money go? Into the general fund to pay for (oh gosh, golly gee willikers) healthcare.......duh!

RustyJC

That has not been my experience with the M and A roads in the UK. Their condition was far superior to our U.S. roads - no frost heaves (I used to live in Ohio), very few potholes, etc. Yes, the A and especially the B roads can be narrow and winding, but they realistically can't move the buildings in some of the old villages to widen the roads. The actual physical condition of the road surfaces was very good to excellent.
Perhaps so in Europe, but we're talking about the U.S. and dyed fuel. If the transportation fund money is being diverted from road construction and maintenance, then we need to get involved in the political system to influence our existing legislators and/or elect their replacements who will change that.

Rusty

bdramsey

Proposition to pay for road maintenance, healthcare, prescription drugs, etc....


We could bridle the amount of money that we "give" to other countries, or International organizations. If our gov was run by the people, it would be almost similar to an employee owned company. But, it's not


That's my proposition.

Rattlerattle

And you get taxed on taxes. Fuel prices, fed tax, provincial tax and then lets through GST on top of all that.

Idaho CTD

I'm game as long as we wait until after hunting season. The first of December works for me. Although somehow I think we will see a drop in prices right before the elections. It will probably stay low for xmas shopping just like every year to encourage shopping.

RustyJC

OK, but let's limit it to road maintenance and construction for now (the subject of this thread). How would you assess this tax to pay for road construction and maintenance? As a fuel tax paid at a fixed rate per gallon? As a sales tax (% of sales price) just on fuel or on everything? As an income tax? Other? What do you consider a fair method to levy a tax for road construction and maintenance?

Rusty

infidel

Some fuel tax money goes to funding the State or Highway patrols, drunk driver programs, driver's licenses etc.
It's not all the blacktop itself related.
Big issue in Montana when we refused to raise the drinking age to 21 was the feds were going to cut off funds. Well, it turned out the funds weren't cut one dime, they just couldn't be used for road repair and maintenance but were diverted to the type of programs mentioned above.

RustyJC

That's a political problem that, IMHO, needs to be fixed. It's no different than the airline ticket tax that's supposed to support America's air traffic system. If that money is being diverted by Congress to other programs, we need to raise heck!

Rusty

Rob_OBX

I got dipped a few months ago, and had about 3/4 tank of bio from the station in Durham. I was out in the middle of nowhere,VA. they had a road block set up and directed every diesel into a parking lot. The guy stuck the straw in my tank and really looked at it, then stared at it... he came up to the lady that was asking me the questions, and said "look at this, what do you think?" she said " well it's not red" Then she asked me what it was. I said biodiesel. she paused for a moment and asked where I bought it. I'm guessing she wanted to make sure it was purchased, not home made, to be sure taxes were paid on it.

I'm not worried even if they said it was red, I have every fuel reciept for the last 60,000 miles at least, and a fuel log book logging every fuel stop from the last 30,000+ miles.

by the way with the EZ on 4, 315s and doing a decent amount of towing and ALOT of city driving, I'm averaging 19 mpg over the last 30,000 miles. not bad at all for a 4x4 QC,LB