Please explain what you mean by easily!!! If it is pretty easy to get a Cummins in the 9.7 area, why aren't there lots of them? If you are talking about mid to high 11's, then I would agree. But not 9's, not even 10's. It takes tons of money, hundreds of man hours, and a dedication most don't have to get into the 10's in any of these 3/4 ton, and 1 ton trucks........

 

I'm just sayin, a cummins can be made to be just as fast as any other truck in a straight line with similar money if not alot cheaper, thats all. Dmax's come from the factory alittle quicker probably, but a built auto 12v and a few easy mods would be trouble, thats why I say easy. And if u got some money, then they can be deadly fast. Because how they come from the factory is fine, and I see alot of people judge a truck just off that, but I know most guys here don't leave there truck like that. If u like ur truck, great, im not knocking that at all, but it's easier to work on a 12v, so therefore thats a advantage to me for easy work.

 

Hey Box, what could be easier than 5 minutes and plugging in 3 three connectors? It's not free like 12 Valve simple mods are, but it's so quick you can't even compare. All the free mods for a 12 Valve, unless it's a 215 pump, barely get you to where a Dmax is stock. After that, you're spending money on both trucks. I love my 12 Valve, and am not knocking it by any means. Pull your blinders off and see the real picture please. The Dmax responds very well to modules, and can be built further rather simply too. When it comes down to it, any electronic engine running 650+ RWHP is going to be more streetable than a mechanical, 12 Valve, engine could ever dream of. You say simplicity, others say driveability.

I say, 425 hp is rather streetable out of a 12 Valve, and that's what I'm shooting for.

 

well, thats true. Plug and play would be really nice. Once I can afford a new truck i'll take one without any complaints, but right now I like to know that I can trace problems and usually fix them on my own. With a full electronic engine, it's going to the shop most likely to be diagnosed and fixed.

 

The one thing I would like about the new electronic motors is the power is at the command of a button. If you want more power turn it up if you want to be stock turn it down. The only thing that comes close on the old 12v is a valet switch which I will be installing in the near future for the rare occosion my wife drives my truck.

 

The sad thing about any CR Cummins is that Cummins can't even pull codes from the engine to fix it...

Dodge ONLY.

The only diesel engine I can honestly say I trust is a 12v...

I hope Dodge and Chevy de-throne the F series...

Fords are junk, I don't care what anyone says...

I've personally seen them break down with my own eyes more times than any other vehicle.... even at the track and truck pulls...

Fords are JUNK - remember that when you see their terrible ads claiming that their injectors make ours look like carbuerators...and their turbo has a turbo...

 

You can get more than that

out of a 12V and still be streetable.. I have a bit more power and am fairly streetable. It is true tho, lets face it, the Cummins 12V is a primitive but effective engine. I myself do not believe it is fair that all that the D mx has to do is put in one programmer and it has as much power as my pickup does. GRANTED most people here in my area just chip em and go, and its enough of a threat, even to my mildly powerful truck... Regardless of the fact, we are in the electronic age, and everything is goin that way. Much more so, if i dont get me another cummins for my stable, ive ALWAYS been partial to the D max... and so what if it outdoes my 12V?

as stated at least i can fix mine and i dont have a truck payment.. But when the time comes for the desire for another truck, i cant rule out the D max, and neither can anyone else on here..

Its a tradeoff as well, SUPER expensive to mod and fix, but massive power gains, or, with the 12v, relatively inexpensive to fix but takes money as well to compete with the D max...

which is the preference? Far as mine goes its a 12V now, but i cant and wont dog a D max...

Rick

 

Hey Rick, I think you may have taken my post wrong. 425 RWHP, I believe, is very streetable with almost any of the trucks out there, the one's that can get that high, anyways. I believe once you reach the 600+ mark, though, that the driveability goes down on the mechanical engines.

I will not knock the 12 Valve at all, mine is great, I love the fact that it's so easy to work on, and how well it responds to mods. I love the inline configuration too.

As far as price goes, the Dmax is newer, so obviously will be more expensive. And tuners aren't cheap by any means either. You hit it on the head with saying it's a tradeoff. Newer, more expensive, but simple power upgrades, or older, less expensive, work on it to make the power. I've obviously chosen the latter myself.

 

you guys are crackin me up. Look at all the records. Who has them. I mean on national level. Why did banks put a cummins in the dakota to run 222mph and why is the new edge truck thats supposed to run in the 6's a cummins. I guess you guys are all right. If you want to bad enough you could make an 85' VW rabbit into a drag car but that doesnt mean its better that the Mercedes. This all just sounds like an argument in the makings.Later.

 

Well

the point to all this is, even at the begining was to show that the world dont revolve around the cummins engine. Yes it has broken records, and yes it has done all of the above stated, NO argument with anyone on here, we all agree that cummins is the best of the three, hence why we drive our trucks, but the point is that the competition in the form of the D max is catchin up fast... IMHO it is nice that the Dmax is makin a comeback... again, it all goes back to that tradeoff, would u be ashamed to drive a Dmax? i know i wouldnt, but it cannot replace the cummins in my mind....

KAS,

on ur assumption for 600 horses, ill let u know when i get there... should be in the near future....

Rick

 

Rick, I'm eagerly waiting to be proven wrong, then I will get mine up around 600 or so, lol. Twins will make it alot better to drive. My previous statement was based off of limited experience with BIG single chargers on a 12 valve. Lots of smoke, spooled late and so on. Couple different trucks have all been like that, as far as I've seen.

 

out of the top 5 trucks this weekend in the street class, 4 were duramax's with stock turbo's, the only dodge in the top 5 had a HT60 on it, thats no where near stock, a all stock duramax can put down over 500 at the wheels for 200 dollars, ask how and ill explain how, it slowly takes it toll on the tranny but will hold up for several pulls, my friend rob, who got 5th this weekend, is on his 5th or 6th pull and still holding up.

 

a stock allison will not hold 500rwhp for any amount of time. Yes, with a built trans, it is pretty easy to make 500+ rwhp on a duramax with tuning only and stock turbo. But on a stock trans? pleeeaaase. Even if the engine is making 'the equivilant' of 500rwhp, so much will be lost in the stock trans slipping that you would be lucky to see 450 hp at the rear wheels.

I have a pretty good idea what it takes to make 500rwhp, and it cant be done for 200 dollars, Ill tell you that right now.

ben

 

If i may add to the convo my old man had a 2004 duramax and ya it was a nice truck and we were happy with how it rode and how quite it was but after we added the edge to it are tranny started acting up and then the truck was hit and totaled. Then he bought a 2005 Cumming and so far the only problem we had was are tranny went out but the Cummings was plowing and we added the Edge and propane and sum other things. But the thing about the Cummins was it only cost us 4500 dollars to get a fully built Goregans transmissions were just a stock Allison is like 7000 dollars. Plus he bought is Cummins for alot less then he could have bought a Dmax and it wasn't like he didnt shop cause he wanted a Dmax, and the other thing we notice was the Cummins work alot better in the cold then the Dmax. But all said and done they are both good engines just one is more industrial than the other

 

like i said it takes its toll on the trans, with the right EFI Live tune you can run a little over 500, Evan Davis will do a single tune on the truck for 200 bucks and you can dyno about 500 on a LBZ. come to wilmington tomorrow and watch my friend Rob's stock tranny duramax, seems to do just fine with the big tune Evan has on it, only time it slips is in 6th with the converter locked and all the way into it.