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Is the Cummins still the best??

Old 12-17-2011, 03:28 PM
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The legendary Cummins,, more like the legendary Cummapart. I been wrenching these pigs for a long time and the only "legendary" Cummins is the N14. Search the forums here, plenty of "stock" Cummins melting down pistons wiping out head gaskets etc, you'll have months of reading pleasure. Also, 800#ft of torque is 800#ft of torque no matter what the configuration of the power plant.

We have an 2001 Sterling Acctera with a 5.9l in it set to 250hp 470#ft of torque. I have done 2 headgaskets, a head, 4 injectors, a cam shaft, 2 water pumps a VP44 and an ecm. We also have a 2002 F350 wrecker, (only small truck we have), that we have had since new, 360k on the clock. I just put 8 remand injectors, 8 glow plugs, 1 gcm, 2 valve cover gaskets in the motor. Its on its second tranny. This truck has been HAMMERED from day one and the only real issue we have had with it is very cold weather starting when not plugged in.

Can you provide the specs for you friends 600hp 7.3. I an very interested to know how he achieved that much power.

Thanks
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Old 12-17-2011, 04:26 PM
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For those that have not seen this thread there is some good documentation from long time owners of cummins trucks with several hundred thousand miles and repair history:


https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...e-t296829.html
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Old 12-17-2011, 04:56 PM
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For what its wroth, I'v driven a ford 6.9 7.3 and a chevy 6.5 along with an 06 6.6 duramax along with a non turbo 5.9 in a case, now I havent even been around as long as Heavytruck, however i feel that the cummins 5.9 in a first gen was[Im not bias its what i own and know,the 2ed,3ed an 4th gen guys probly feel the same way i do] the best choice for what is out there to put in a pickup,however that dose not mean there is a better engine out there or being desighned .....I hope its a cummins but we will have to what and see....
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Old 12-17-2011, 05:03 PM
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dodgeguy71:

Good post Sir! I agree with alot of what you said.

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Old 12-17-2011, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by John_P View Post
dodgeguy71:

Good post Sir! I agree with alot of what you said.

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I agree Sir.
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Old 12-17-2011, 05:18 PM
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The key is simple,= duty cycles. nuff said
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Old 12-17-2011, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Hvytrkmech View Post
The legendary Cummins,, more like the legendary Cummapart. I been wrenching these pigs for a long time and the only "legendary" Cummins is the N14. Search the forums here, plenty of "stock" Cummins melting down pistons wiping out head gaskets etc, you'll have months of reading pleasure. Also, 800#ft of torque is 800#ft of torque no matter what the configuration of the power plant.

We have an 2001 Sterling Acctera with a 5.9l in it set to 250hp 470#ft of torque. I have done 2 headgaskets, a head, 4 injectors, a cam shaft, 2 water pumps a VP44 and an ecm. We also have a 2002 F350 wrecker, (only small truck we have), that we have had since new, 360k on the clock. I just put 8 remand injectors, 8 glow plugs, 1 gcm, 2 valve cover gaskets in the motor. Its on its second tranny. This truck has been HAMMERED from day one and the only real issue we have had with it is very cold weather starting when not plugged in.

Can you provide the specs for you friends 600hp 7.3. I an very interested to know how he achieved that much power.

Thanks
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Tim:

You know I respect your opinion Sir and you work on the Cummins Engines all the time so you see alot of the bad I am sure. I think you are right about the N-14 being a darn good engine, however, I disagree with your statement on the reference to "Cumapart!" It is my feeling the later 5.9 and newer 6.7 engines with the CR technology are not as good as the older Cummins 5.9 12 valve engines. You can look at my signature to see that my 1996 Dodge CTD 12 valve is putting down over 800 H.P. and it is a daily driver. The engine was upgraded about a year ago with better pistons. But before that, I had stock 215 pistons in the lower end (same H.P.and TQ) and that engine was in my truck for 60,000 miles during a three year period! I regularly drove my truck on long trips to attend diesel events and drag races all over the U.S. going as far as Denver, Colorado from my home in eastern N.C. So, as dodgeguy71 pointed out, ALL of the brands can have problems or failure, but built right the Cummins engines can last and be reliable with added power.

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Old 12-17-2011, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by John_P View Post
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Tim:

You know I respect your opinion Sir and you work on the Cummins Engines all the time so you see alot of the bad I am sure. I think you are right about the N-14 being a darn good engine, however, I disagree with your statement on the reference to "Cumapart!" It is my feeling the later 5.9 and newer 6.7 engines with the CR technology are not as good as the older Cummins 5.9 12 valve engines. You can look at my signature to see that my 1996 Dodge CTD 12 valve is putting down over 800 H.P. and it is a daily driver. The engine was upgraded about a year ago with better pistons. But before that, I had stock 215 pistons in the lower end (same H.P.and TQ) and that engine was in my truck for 60,000 miles during a three year period! I regularly drove my truck on long trips to attend diesel events and drag races all over the U.S. going as far as Denver, Colorado from my home in eastern N.C. So, as dodgeguy71 pointed out, ALL of the brands can have problems or failure, but built right the Cummins engines can last and be reliable with added power.

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Thanks John, I should have clarified myself, shame on me. My opinions and experience with Cummins and my statement in regards to Cummapart refers Strictly to class6- 8 engines. I have nearly 0 experience with the 12 valve like you do John, my apologize Sir. With that said, I shall refrain from generalizing all Cummins engines as I had so implied.

Respectfully..

edited by me, class 6-8 trucks
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Old 12-17-2011, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Hvytrkmech View Post
Thanks John, I should have clarified myself, shame on me. My opinions and experience with Cummins and my statement in regards to Cummapart refers Strictly to class 8 engines. I have nearly 0 experience with the 12 valve like you do John, my apologize Sir. With that said, I shall refrain from generalizing all Cummins engines as I had so implied.

Respectfully..
------------------------
No problem Tim!
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Old 12-18-2011, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Hvytrkmech View Post
....Can you provide the specs for you friends 600hp 7.3. I an very interested to know how he achieved that much power.
Thanks
Ho boy, that's a good question. That engine was done up by himself and a buddy of his who is a diesel mechanic for CPR. I don't know a whole lot about how he did the build but I do know he did injectors and oil pump, eagle pistons and rods, fire ringed and ported the heads, head studs, some kind of monster turbo (it was supposedly matched specifically to his engine as per mods), water meth, intake, exhaust stack with fancy manifolds, and some kind of programmable fuel management system. The hp ratings came from a "bad" dyno run.
I know what you're thinking - "oh well that's the problem, they installed the rods or pistons wrong". These guys built a sled puller that's making well over 1000 hp and are very respectable competition. They're big phord guys and know how to build engines the right way. It's not their fault the 7.3 doesn't stand up.
Anyhow, that's about all I know about that one. He parted out the 7.3l and was starting to build a 12v out of a bus for his super duty, but the other day he showed up with a 2010 phord. Parts are on order. Guess we'll see if the new engine can hold up.
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Old 12-18-2011, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Hvytrkmech View Post
The legendary Cummins,, more like the legendary Cummapart. I been wrenching these pigs for a long time ....
I'm a diesel mechanic for John Deere. That's like me saying "John Deere's are terrible. That's all I fix. They're always broken."
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Old 12-18-2011, 07:42 AM
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The reason I ask is I know the limit of the HEUI system, they are extremely difficult to get to 600hp let alone anything over that. Cudos to those builders.

Bottom line with me is I do not subscribe to a single camp, all the manufactures make good and flawed engines. Some that you would think will last don't and some that you would think are junk last. My specialty has been in International power plants, then on bigger Cummins, mostly the older 855's,(where Cummapart comes from), up to the N14's, my overall favorite engine.
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:03 AM
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Tim has some valid points. First rule of being a non-dealership mechanic.

It's ALL junk when it breaks.

Next, cummins have their flaws, even in the "legendary" 12 valve engine, but, so do all other makes. Up until the CR units came out though, the cummins was easier to work on than most.

Heck, I still like the 6.5 GM. for what it was, it still works, just not as fast as everyone else.

Now, HEUI engines.... Bad idea, bad follow through, good on those guys that get big numbers out of them. I know firsthand what you have to go through to get a 444e to throw down big numbers. The old hotrodder's math inches cubed + dollars cubed = big power. I have seen some well worked, long lived engines in fords, I've never had the pleasure of owning one... they all broke. But that is just my experience.

Back to the fact, I think that the best engine for any application, or the best piece of gear in general, is the one that works for what the owner wants it to do. Doesn't matter what name is on the product, they are all examples of planned obsolescence anyway.

Have a good one people
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:21 AM
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I think some guys (me included) are missing the point to the original question. The question is not "does Cummins break"? or "does Cummins have any issues or flaws"?
The question is "is Cummins still the best"? It implies that Cummins at some point has had the edge on the others. Agreed.
Yes Cummins breaks. Yes they have flaws. Yes some guys have had a bad 5.9. But at the end of the day as compared to the others, they are simpler, more reliable, start better, they are cheaper to fix, generally easier to fix, seem to last forever in general and in a lot of cases are better on fuel. That DOES NOT automatically make all the other stuff junk people! It also DOES NOT mean Cummins never breaks, nobody's ever had a bad one and they all last a million miles.
Sure it's all junk when it breaks. The question is which breaks more? Who's easier/cheaper to fix? The general reputation of 20+ years of 5.9's is not that they break. Guys that know nothing about diesel engines will tell you that because that IS the reputation that's out there. Everybody's heard it somewhere.
The OP's question was "Is Cummins still the best"? Quit being offended because you have a soft spot for duramax or powerstroke. Nobody's saying they're complete junk. Just that Cummins has had/does have an edge.
And that competes my rant for tody
Carry on....
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Old 12-19-2011, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by 9812vram View Post


I think some guys (me included) are missing the point to the original question. The question is not "does Cummins break"? or "does Cummins have any issues or flaws"?
The question is "is Cummins still the best"? It implies that Cummins at some point has had the edge on the others. Agreed.
Yes Cummins breaks. Yes they have flaws. Yes some guys have had a bad 5.9. But at the end of the day as compared to the others, they are simpler, more reliable, start better, they are cheaper to fix, generally easier to fix, seem to last forever in general and in a lot of cases are better on fuel. That DOES NOT automatically make all the other stuff junk people! It also DOES NOT mean Cummins never breaks, nobody's ever had a bad one and they all last a million miles.
Sure it's all junk when it breaks. The question is which breaks more? Who's easier/cheaper to fix? The general reputation of 20+ years of 5.9's is not that they break. Guys that know nothing about diesel engines will tell you that because that IS the reputation that's out there. Everybody's heard it somewhere.
The OP's question was "Is Cummins still the best"? Quit being offended because you have a soft spot for duramax or powerstroke. Nobody's saying they're complete junk. Just that Cummins has had/does have an edge.
And that competes my rant for tody
Carry on....

Well that's no fun. Can we all at least agree that 6.0L Ford trucks were all completely garbage? Perhaps this is as close to an over generalized sweeping statement we can make. We need a statement like this to rally around and create a good bond for us all.
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