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-   -   Is the Cummins still the best?? (https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/forums/general-diesel-discussion-92/cummins-still-best-297021/)

89dieselkong 11-06-2011 08:32 PM

Is the Cummins still the best??
 
There have been a lot of advancements in the world of the "big 3" diesel engines, so I ask does the Cummins still reserve the right to reputation that it has earned? Obviously there was no comparison when it was the 12v, and the 24V and CR even though they were down in the HP war at times were still ahead of the competition due to the 6.0 fiasco and the newly released, unproven Duramax. Nowadays though, have the Powerstroke and the Duramax finally matched the Cummins? They seem to be getting better and the Cummins doesn't seem to have the "million-mile, indestructable" moniker attached to it so much. Are we using the Cummins of yesterday to claim that it is the best, or is it still?? Now I know I'm gonna get a lot of folks that will defend their Cummins (as do I ) but I really want to hear more of a scientific reasoning, i.e how their built etc. Whaddya all think??

pind 11-06-2011 11:52 PM

My dodge is, and has been a workhorse. 24V engine, bad fuel pump, otherwise good.

In the newer engines, the GM guys seem to have it figured out better than anyone else. That "beer can" engine is tough to beat all around.

Ford is still lagging behind, but I'm sure they're used to it by now. I have heard good reviews from a bunch of owners, on the new 6.7 fords, and I hope it works out for them. honestly, its the first diesel in a ford that I have ever heard anything good about. Still have small problems though, like bad oil pan gaskets, no heat in the cab, check engine lights that stay on... But better than the 6.0 or the 6.4 overall.

So, on the new stuff, The duramax is the winning engine, the ford is the toughest truck, and the ram/cummins, just ain't what it used to be. lets hope the new owners can turn it around a bit.

Rednecktastic 11-07-2011 07:28 AM

The V8 diesels the other guys offer just scare most people that rely on these trucks for work and longevity.


Just too much junk under the hood that can break on those guys. They do make good power and get decent mpg, they just aren't economical though in my opinion.


One of my subcontractors had an 08 or 09 SuperDuty Lariet. He put 150K miles on the truck. He told me he spent $15,000 on repairs on that truck to keep it on the road. He traded it in for $15,000.

Dodge is much cheaper to maintain and you see lots (enough to believe it) of guys in 3rd gens on the boards hitting 1 million plus miles with only minor maintenence.

infidel 11-07-2011 10:44 AM

My buddy with an '06 Duramax has been offered more than he paid for it from the dealer.
They told him the reason is the engine has gone downhill since then with the addition of more emissions crap.
Has made the older Duramax more in demand.

dieselfreak21 11-07-2011 01:45 PM

Just my .02 but we know Cummins are built with better internals. Compare the crank, rods and pistons of Cummins to the other 2. The desing is still simple and even thier emission stuff is simple. They will need Urea at some point but for now they can meet with out it. Part are still cheaper for them over all. You your self can still work on a Cummins. I have looked under the hoods of the new fords and duramaxes and you couldn't work on them if you knew how. Something that complicated it bound to have problems. (ford's 6.0 comes to mind). Sure the new's on paper look to be power house do get better fuel mileage but when you buy urea they don't get that much better. If you want to delete the emission stuff on the new cummins it is simple the other engines not so much. I would rather have a few less ponies than deal with extra emissions stuff. Time will tell but we have some time before we will see a bunch of these 200k miles mark then that will be the real test and beyond. If i had to rank Cummins in all years as 1, the duramax as 2 especailly 05-06, the 7.3, then the 6.4, then a gas motor, then the 6.0

Brian08Q35004x4 11-07-2011 01:51 PM

I think they all suck do to the electronics. You can not even change your own injector without the factory programmer to put serial numbers into the computer. Look at the price for a injection pump or set of injectors. 12k for a newer 6.7. We have let the Automakers enslave us with having to have them repair most of the most common failures. I had to make a choice and went with a straight six because of less parts than a 8 and less shop time due to access. :2cents:. I did this with my 92, 01 and 08. My best truck was the 92 and wish I would of just payed to do a frame up restore / rebuild. In 395k the 92 cost me $800 in repairs beside maintenance. In the 01 it was $5400. So far on the 08 warranty has covered everything but as the miles build it scares me to heck.

bristoy 11-07-2011 11:02 PM

as the others have said the cummins over all has the best internals& if you think about it as afreind of mine says there's a reason that most tractor engines have been built w/inline 6 configuration for over a 100 years/they are tough,powerful & they last!!!

Rednecktastic 11-08-2011 03:41 PM

It's not just the internals though. It is the fuel system too. If you have to lift the cab off a truck to change the fuel pump, I'd say the trucks useful life is greatly shortened. Welcome to any recent Ford diesel truck, and it's not like this stuff lasts forever, they are simpily throw away trucks.
I'd rather dump the thing off with fairly low miles and just buy a new one.
The Dodge though, I'm not that worried about even if it breaks.

whiskers 11-08-2011 08:02 PM

Well, I look at it from the home mechanic standpoint. I wouldn't give you a nickle for any of the newer computer controlled trucks but Dodge. Even the electronics being a pain , the engines are still fixable, tunable, and dependable. I have too many friends with furds and duramaxes that can't say that at all! But trully a 98.5 quad with a 12 valve is still the holy grail to me!!!!

signature600 11-09-2011 05:20 PM


Originally Posted by whiskers (Post 3039877)
Well, I look at it from the home mechanic standpoint. I wouldn't give you a nickle for any of the newer computer controlled trucks but Dodge. Even the electronics being a pain , the engines are still fixable, tunable, and dependable. I have too many friends with furds and duramaxes that can't say that at all! But trully a 98.5 quad with a 12 valve is still the holy grail to me!!!!

That would be a 98.4;)


Electronics are here to stay, good or bad. Deal with it guys, it's not 1998 anymore, and they're not all bad. We deal with them on tractors, and sure they CAN be a pain, but they can also be really great!

As far as emissions, either fix the EPA or quit complaining. Seriously though, 400hp from a pickup that meets all the emissions, and drives like you just lit it's butt on fire....any we're complaining??

Chris

whiskers 11-09-2011 06:20 PM

Whatever the split is. All I know is my '98 ain't it. But I like the P pumped motors. But I don't think the 24 valves are all bad.

sootnsmoke 11-09-2011 06:56 PM

I have no problem driving a brand new computer controlled space shuttle and/or a $55k dollar truck as long as 2 conditions exist for me: 1) I win the lottery and can justify spending that kind of cash on a vehicle and 2) I no longer own it after the extended warranty expires. So far, I have not met condition #1 and therefore am very content to be driving my 1st Gen 12V! It is nice to drive something that gets the job done which is appreciating rather than depreciating as well!

Regarding the original discussion point on the new stuff, I would probably just buy the manufacturer's diesel truck that has the best price point in the configuration I need along with consideration given to which one has the best warranty coverage and length. Once the warranty is over, it will be parked in someone else's driveway anyway. Regardless of the choice made I would only have it a few years anyway. The way I look at them all is that the potential parts/labor exposure after warranty expiration is more than I am willing to take on given a depreciating vehicle. If cost and warranty were all identical between them (which I am sure they are not) I would buy the Cummins. I say that because from a design standpoint I believe in the inline 6 cyl over an V8 cyl. Is Cummins still the best regarding their brand new trucks? I would simply ask...how does the price, warranty, and cost of ownership POST warranty period compare to the other guys?

Polaraco 11-09-2011 08:28 PM

There is no debate on this. It is a known fact any in-line 6 diesel will outlast a V8 anyday.

Even the Dodge Cummins engines will out perform and out endure the rest of them. The torque it generates is real torque. Not emulated like the others with electronics.

Just remember, the Dodge engines are not the same as an equal size industrial engine.

Blake Clark 11-10-2011 03:55 AM

For me, and my wants and needs, Cummins is undoubtedly still the best.

Your wants and needs may vary.....

jhenson 11-10-2011 08:40 AM

Ask yourself this question.....How many Fords and Chevys (diesel of course) have over 1/2 a million miles or more on them and are still running?....a small fraction of them compared to the Cummins!!! As stated above, an in-line engine is more durable than a v-motor.

Back to morning [coffee].


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