Try these sites. www.micro-vett.it/H2/ing/H2ing.html
www.wam-a-bam.com/hydrockickbank.html

 

You should be aware that these systems manual are at:

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/h2conversion/files/

For Free!! However, there are some circuit problems.
While the concept is sound there are electronic problems.

What you need most is a PWM unit with your HHO reactor and if you have an EFIE then an EFIE unit. (eagleresearch.com).
Not much has been done in this forum in terms of research but we can all change that.
Biofuel (veg oil) is NOT the way to go as it results in soot. (EPA does not like that.)
New regulations are being draw up on biofuel by the EPA as we speak. Remember food production land has to grow soya etc. to provide oil for this type of unit.
Spend your time with hydrogen. Remember in 10 years time at least a 1/4 of all the pre 2008 units will be off the road as FUEL CELL units and hydrogen powered cars (BMW, HONDA, GMC, Ford etc. . ) will have fuel cell s and what will they use? HYDROGEN

There are PEM, DMTF etc but the PEM (Ballard System-Canada) will also be powering your homes. Sometime on EBAY you can pick up a used unit for about $1000 that will power your home.

Hydrogen with gasoline is a boosting device. 1.5 LPM is a good goal to reach for a booster unit. Running on PURE hydrogen can be achieve but is a bit more difficult. For those of you who are interested see the "gorilla" units.
These are design for large HHO production. Remember the diesel engine was designed to run on peanut oil!
Regards to all.
John

PS It can be done. BMW did it almost three years ago but the US will not allow the cars to come here. Not Yet- 100% HYDROGEN!!!!!!!https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...coffeetime.gif

If we knew what we were doing, we would not call it research. Albert E.

 

Well finally I'm seeing some improvements. With four cells on my 05 now driveing 60mph I can get 22mpg. That's not going down hill or with a tailwind. That's not loaded except my normal work tools so I scale over 9k.
I'm still going to add more cells to see if I can improve on that #.

 

TreeDr. Where are you putting all those cells, in the bed? I also like to ask where would be a good place to tap the switch 12v? It seems like the cigarette lighter fuse is what I've been reading. Any where else? And lastly, do you put in a toggle switch to turn the cell on after you start the motor? Is that necessary? Sorry for all the questions.

Thanks,
Eugene

 

Three of my cells are only 2"x4" plates 5 neg and 6 pos. I use copper for the negative and stainless for the positive. No baking soda is needed if placed close enough. My fourth cell is three stainlesss pipes placed one inside of each other each about 5" long. The middle pipe is negative. The spaceing on the outher tow pipes is .062 and the inside to is .050. No I haven't measured volume. Yes I tap into the cig. but thats so it comes on with the ignition but I have a sylinoid? that all the current goes through. Yes I have a toggle that I can turn it all off if I want or need to. All my cells are under the hood. My cells aren't that big. Yes they get hot if you'll look in my photos you will see one of the containers I'm useing. So far I have not melted a hole on one. I have melted pvc.

 

Thanks for the reply. I'm working on the wiring and I've never tap into the fuse box before. I'd thought I double check.

Eugene

 

Are your cells wired parallel or in series? It sounds like they are wired in parallel. If you wire them in series you will make the same amount of gas and a lot less heat. It will still get warm but not as hot.

I noticed in an earlier post you mentioned something about measuring output on the fly. That's easy, you will need something like this :

You will most likely have to get in the SCFH range. You will want it in the 0 to 5 SCFH. Make sure you put it after the bubbler or you will fill it full of crud.
You can find one here http://www.mcmaster.com/ part # 5079K24.
You might be able to find one at a welding supply shop. They use these for TIG (GTAW) welding to monitor the argon gas flow.

 

Thanks Bill
I'll have to look into getting one.
All of my cells are hooked up independantly. I'll try the series set up and see what happens.
I've added a couple of more cell so now with 6 cell at 60 with the ac on I averaged over 23 over varied terain. There was a side and tail wind for part of the trip 5-10mph.
Several small cells seem to work better than one large one. I just blow the fuse on a large one. Maybe if I get more high tech I could do a larger cell.

 

Wow I just read this entire thread. I stumbled on a video on youtube about 4 weeks ago.
I made my own not expecting much. I used the 4" PVC with caps each end and stainless plates inside.

I really did not expect much. I have a 1ST GEN bubble butt. I get 14.5 tops in town empty. The first thing I noticed with the unit turned on and 2-3# of boost is that my EGT is much higher. Not really a worry its seams the more you push on the go pedal the less the EGT's go up.

Maybe others can explain this phenomenon with the EGT?

I am really early on providing any kind of results. I have never got more then 75-80mile on my trip meter before I hit 3/4 on the fuel gauge.

I am happy to say I am now at 105 and just hit the 3/4 mark on the gauge today. I figure so far I have 20-25 more miles on this tank then normal.

I drive the same route every day to work 6 miles in and 6 miles home. I drive my wifes car after work.

I cant wait to fill the truck up in a couple weeks to see how much it really has helped.

 

OK, my eyes are bleeding after a total of 8 or so hours of reading this from the start...
My thoughts:
1. Effeciency is an analog process...small increases in substances that increase effeciency can (but don't always) increase desired performance by a small amount. Trying to be both the Lord and Devil's advocate, I'd have to say the "haters" miss that point more than the believers on this issue. It's important to separate those treating this as an "additive" vs a replacement fuel. Of course there's no such thing as a true "free energy" device. Don't use the "here we go again with the perpetual motion idiots" argument when it comes to this issue. Arguing that the potential losses in the alternator equal (or are more than) the benifits of hydrogen without hard core scientific fact...you might as well argue that: energy required by pump at gas station to lift 30 gallons of diesel from the tank in the ground to your truck = potential energy of the diesel itself. This is about exploiting the already present potential energy of the diesel.

2. There is a little hydrogen entering the intake naturally without one of these systems anyway...imagine instead of trying to make the content of the air 4% H2 (etc)...you are doubling...tripling...or even increasing by 100 times the amount of H2 that would otherwise be there. Maybe that is where the true benefit of these systems are.

3. Brown's Gas vs H2 vs O2: Unless you are separating the gasses somehow...these systems are putting in brown's gas, more than just H2. That's where my chemistry leaves off...I seem to think that more oxidizer would be better than fuel (since the Diesel is providing the bulk of the BTU intake anyway)...perhaps it's the o2 part that is getting the gain in effeciency. This is, after all, assuming that the goal is increasing the efficiency of the motor...trying to get a little out of the other 66% of the energy from leaving the radiator and exhaust pipe. Apples to Apples...I got confused a few times because people were mixing issues sometimes.

4. I like to think the truckers...real truckers, the big rig types...know what's hype and what's real. The fact of the matter is that commercial truck fleets do use these things. There are a lot of the larger models out there, and they range anywhere from $1000 to $15000. You can argue the physics and chemistry all you want...but it's hard to argue with the folks spending a lot of money (consistently) toward this goal. So ultimately, what gives? Why do those on the road so much like these systems?

5. There's tinkering...and there's lying to yourself: I love to tinker. I've also lyed to myself on occasion when a project wasn't going well. Don't blame the vendor on eBay. Don't round up your MPG so you can claim victory to your wife. We may not have machine shops and EE degrees, but we can have the scientific process none the less with presenting "just the facts." And the scientific elitests on this thread can feel free to try to offer insight instead of talking down to the ones actually doing the research. I've found that most people that do that are simply embarrassed that they don't understand a process as well as the degree on their wall would suggest.

6. You'd hope that those selling systems online and in niche markets all over the US would have gone to the trouble of R&D when designing their systems. Of course, I believe that like I believe I'm going to get 20% gas mileage increases running a H2 system. Check these out...and if you've got one...we gotta hear about it.
Hydro 4000: SAE products: 3 in 1: Umpqua Commercial:

Next up on the soap box? Nearly three years running...and some pretty neat stuff. Keep the dialogue going with scepticism and trial and error...but without the pride and ownership and I think we've got a good thing. So who's abandoned the idea from lack of results? Who's blown up their truck? Who's got ripped off and who's no-kidding noticing benefits?

 

Just installing a hho unit and the object of this add on is to burn the unburnt fuel that is going through the cylinder and wasted--thus they added the cat to do the job. Not trying to run on hho, only make the burn more efficent by adding 1 1/2 to 2 ltr hho. New pulse generators produce more hho @ lower temps. also new distilled water with other additives for clean mixes are out there--more later, hey guys (newbee and like your forum)

 

Right on Tree--We need more info on electronic control--on gas injection I used 02 extenders and map sensor to adjust fuel demand and did not mess with EFIE (good results and simple) 40% gain. Now with the diesel the hho makes the mixture fire sooner (heat) than diesel fuel only, so timing will have to be adjusted ( I think that when you add more hho, you start getting less results) also I think we can find a better place to inject the hho besides in front of the turbo (need more info) later

 

I'm finding out all kinds of new stuff as I go along, as you can read. I've noticed my pyro being cooler as well instead of running 700 cruising at 60 now it's at 600. Also I watch my intake air temp vs outside ambient. Since I have increased my H the difference between the two has gone down. Before the diffence was 10-12deg now its 6-8deg. Physics guy said the hydrogen burns hotter? I'll have to ask that one again as to why the pyro said it's cooler. The intake air temp is because the H transfers heat better than the air does so maybe as I increase my H the diffence will get closer between the IAT and ambient.
Another thing about hydrogen is that it will combust under compression. There doesn't have to be diesel there to ignite it.

 

not to change the subject, but i have a '93 Dakota w/ a home made h generator,i think i have to disable the 02 sensor for the hydrogen generator to be effective.
does any body have any suggestions?

 

I avoid the computer controlled , that is one reason .
There are methods to help the computer to keep the extra fuel in the loop .