I build all of my own hydrogen units and have only sold a few to people I know personally that wanted them. If you look in my photo area you will see an example of one I built. Yes I spend over 600$ a month on fuel too.
I'm not sure that different amounts of hydrogen are needed. I think timeing is the bigest problem with these 03 and newer. I need to find what the timeing advance is for these motors. I may have to retard the timeing to get the best results.

 

http://sci.tech-archive.net/Archive/.../msg00152.html


Beware of Hydrogen generator Scam! Yup! Many Americans lied to each others about their funky generator to make money without remorse...

From: "theloneranger100@xxxxxxx" <bolotingreg@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 13:05:41 -0800

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"BradGuth" <bradguth@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:c43ce251-3068-421e-b972-ff19fad67f3f@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

There's any number of conversion kits for the conventional ICE,
that'll blend H2 along with the atmospheric intake of whatever's
consuming regular fossil or synfuel. However, the vast majority of
Usenet is highly opposed to any such applications that might go
towards improving our empg, the environment or especially of running
whatever upon any sort of home brewed hydrogen that isn't kicking back
some kind of loot per m3 of H2 into their offshore bank accounts, plus
similar to moonshine is where our State and Feds will also want to
regulate as well as tax it to death.

You can expect to receive a whole lot more flak than support. When I
come across something of interest for using hydrogen, as such I'll
share. Usenet is simply not hydrogen friendly unless you're going
100% along with absolutely everything that's Mook.

- Brad Guth





Many amateur builders of hydrogen generator out there lied to each others
about their great product but Beware! they have not done extensive test,
naturally Water will heat up, once electrolyte temperature reached the
degree of 130F - 150F, your catalyst converter will come apart, why?
Because Water VAPOR entered your Engine, water is not combustible! I have
done this test several times, and my background is in Engineering, I worked
in this electromechanical field for nearly 25+yrs.



If you want a solution to beat the gas price in 1/2 or better then I tell
Mr. Bush to reward someone with $1-2 Billions, then your problem is solved.
Then a technological plan will flood US market and the word with an easy to
follow instruction.







.


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WAIT THERE'S MORE

THIS IS FROM EBAY

http://reviews.ebay.com/Hydrogen-Gen...00000005261775

Hydrogen Generator Economy Device SCAMS
by: ayasia( 274)
11 out of 11 people found this guide helpful.
Guide viewed: 247 times Tags: Hydrogen Generator | Performance chip | Hydrostar | Water Car | Fuel Saver


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With the surge in gas prices, came a surge of people and companies selling hydrogen boost generators, systems and devices to increase your fuel economy. The amount of sellers gets bigger with every day. This alone should have put up a warning flag.

Included is a brief on the Performance chips, Air Razors, Turbonators, Throttle body spacers, and other "bolt on performance and fuel economy"

This message is for all looking to purchase something of the matter.

Most all of these sellers here on eBay and elswhere on the net state that they have been researching for years and that it is now available to the public. Most all of them say their technology is patent pending and that their system is better than others. Most all of them claim huge "up to" increases in fuel savings.

I have been researching the Economy and Hydrogen world for sometime now. Being a auto mechanic and being not only booksmart but streetsmart, I have decided to try to evade people from throwing away their hard earned cash.

First the Hydrogen deal:

Lets get the facts straight. Water is H2O aka- 2parts Hydrogen, 1part Oxygen combined together. When put under electrolysis or electrosis these molecules split forming a gas known as HHO which is a very explosive and powerful gas. The smallest of sparks can ignite the gas and if stored into container which for some reason caught fire the result could be fatal. No need to get scared though, if the proper precautions are made, no danger is to be seen.

HHO is about 3 times more powerful than gasoline vapor. Meaning 1L of HHO would give your vehicle 300% more power than 1L of gasoline vapor. But feeding an engine pure hho would probably destroy it. Getting enough HHO to power a car is pretty hard if not impossible. Explanation: a 2 cylinder 1L engine uses 1L of air per 4 revolutions (rpm). Gasoline is injected as a mist which turns into a vapor instantly at a ratio of 15 parts air to one part vapor. Which is .07 L. At 2000 RMPs the engine uses 1/2L of vapor per SECOND. HHO is already one part oxygen to two parts hydrogen so too much air would thin it out too much and give no explosion. SO, even at a ratio of 10:1 that would require .85 L per second of HHO to power that same engine at 2000RPMs. Kinda alot. NO generator I have seen or made can come close to the requirements.

So we use HHO to Boost the efficeincy of our gasoline engine, giving it pure hydrogen and oxygen to let the fuel burn better. This is where the good part starts.

Most sellers are selling systems that give less than 1/2 LPM of HHO. When mixed with the air going to the engine that makes NOTHING. 1/10-1/2 LPM of HHO will do some good for a small engine like 250CC-2.0L again more HHO to the bigger engine. Any engine over this size needs 1+ LPM. Alot of the sellers dont even know how much their system makes! They say "ALOT" but in reality all the cells I have tested that seemed to make alot, made 1/4-3/4 LPM. If the kit supplies gas via an aquarium air line, the system makes nothing, trust me. 1LPM cannot escape through a tube that small fast enough. LOOK OUT FOR THE GAS OUTPUT.

Second, if a system uses alot of AMPS, it will fry your alternator and battery in no time which no one will tell you though. Look out for systems that draw over 15AMPs but put out less than 1LPM. This is not a wise investment. A full size truck can handle 25 AMPS.

MORE EXPENSIVE DOESNT MEAN BETTER!
The most credited seller so far on ebay is kensmith selling the HydroSuper which he says puts out +/- 2LPM @ 12 AMPs it is also at a decent price and looks to be professional, I have looked it over and it is a nicely built unit..

Any system made out of PVC(white) or ABS(black) Plumbing pipe that draws over 15 amps is likely to boil. That pipe is not made to withstand that kind of temperature. It turns soft and flexible at that temp. It will warp, deform and likely leak in short time if there is any connections below the water line. Watch out for these types of systems.

The biggest concern is that most none of the sellers tell anyone that if you own a EFI (fuel injected) car which most people do, that you will need either and EFIE on your Oxygen sensor, or a resistor on your MAP or MAF sensor. These are fairly easy to build and install but it is a MUST and you will not see much difference in fuel savings without one. It is used to trick the computer into thinking that the fuel mix is richer than it is. You want LEAN mix if you are running HHO boost. But too much oxygen in the exhaust will tell the computer to add more fuel which would cancel any HHO boost. Moving the Oxygen sensor out of the pipe but still mounted on the pipe will be almost just as good. Diesel cars do not suffer from this.
The Performance economy chip SCAM:

Alot of sellers selling these "performance chips" many have closed doors and opened new ones due to bad feedback.
Stay away from the "performance chips" as they are only a resistor, usually 33K OHM (5pack at Radioshack for $1) that goes on your air intake temperature sensor and give the car a little boost. Whether $40 or $.99 on eBay, they are the same and dont do anything for gas mileage as the sellers state. The shipping is outrageous too.

The AirRazor or Turbonator or anything of the sort will not do anything for fuel economy either without a sensor modification of some sort.

Fuel magnets do not work on gasoline cars. They do help diesel engines as they destroy algea in the fuel.

Fuel heaters do not do anything for fuel injected gasoline cars as the gasoline is already heated hot enough. They do work wonders on diesel as the fuel always returns to the tank and cools again never getting a chance to heat up hot enough for proper combustion.

Throttle body spacers dont do anything for a vehicle unless it is in full throttle position which is obviously not the point of saving gas.

Most economy devices only do good for the sellers and their fat wallets.

A good investment is a nice set of sparkplugs every 75K(Bosch 2 or 4, Iridium, e3), a new set of ignition wires every 50-75K miles, a new fuel filter, a high flow air filter (K&N, AirRaid, Fajita will last longer than your car) dont go for the China "cold air intake filter" Cheap foam will let ALOT of dust through.

Proper inflation of tires is a must. You can lose 10% for every 5PSI your tires are under-inflated. Extra junk has to go. A 100LBs will drop you 10% on a smaller car.

Use a fuel injector cleaner once in a while. Change your oil on time. Fill up at a quality gas station ALWAYS. I tested fuel from various "cheap stations" and you dont want to know what I found.

Here is a list of wasted money courtesy of ME.

Water4Gas (no NEW technology here, just FREE info from the web, a pathetic electrolyser design and a waste)
Thermo1 (you want a leaky system, this is the way to go)
Protium Fuel Systems (Selling things they dont have and dont want to return your money)
HydroStar Manuals for sale on eBay (the MOST EXPENSIVE and hardest system to TEST your money on. Based on his theory and no proof. Dont waste your money and time.)
GEET (I find it possible for it to work only on a fixed RPM engine)
mybetterworld (the system seems to work for a few days at a time before cleaning needs to be done @ $1050, I dont think so. Try it if you wish)
Turbonator $89
RedLine Performance chip $25 (closed)
Fuel Master Fuel Magnet $30 (cheap ceramic magnets)
Throttle Body spacer $50


Only certain sellers and designs get my credit. I put up all the info a person needs to know to make an informed desicion on where to put their hard earned money.

Email me with questions and comments to matlashevsky_85-yahoo.com

If this was helpful, vote yes please. If not let me know what I missed. Thanks everyone!






Guide ID: 10000000005261775Guide created: 01/28/08 (updated 02/13/08)


NOT CONVINCED YET ????

 

john from NY,

FYI a K&N type of air filter is not he best air filter to use on a diesel engine as they can let to much dirt get to the turbo and screw it up when not taken care of properly.

 

ya, and both articals said what i told u, most systmes are scams, and it hasnt be researched enoff. im putting the time it to research it out and build a system. im working with engineers and chimistry professors. im not trying to through a system together and say look it works!!! now if i find that it wont work well for any application then ill post that right here, but so far it is looking really promising. the second artical had alot of good info in it, and i dont think a system like this will ever be a "bolt on kit" it has to be tunes to the car. anyone that says otherwise is one of the scamers and to address the comment about me or tree dr trying to sell these. im doing this for me just like he is. if i get something that works well ill probibly make one for my dad, brother, and some of my frinds and family. not go into production with this. ill post my desine and all my research and let anyone that wants to build one do it them selves and use my research to get it tunes properly. i know you got scamed and that really sucks but i dont know y ur so agenced us trying to make one that acculy does work, if i make one that does all the info will be here and u can decide then if you want to give it onother shot but this time it would only cost you the cost of the miterials and ur time.

 

Thanks again bullboy.
Now all of a sudden we're scam artists. I thought you had to sell something to be a scam artist.
Maybe some of them work for the big money and they don't wan't us to figure it out. So they keep telling us it can't be done, or we're crooks and no one should listen.

 

Check this out; http://www.oupower.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1796

Interesting reading!

Farmer Tom

 

What if a person added more oxygen with the HHO like HHOO hydrogen peroxide? Would the extra oxygen make it into the motor or does the Hydrogen prevent it from getting in also?
I'm going to try the peroxide and see what happens. What could it hurt???

 

id worry about it cleaning to much oil off the cylnder walls, kinda like nos does

 

More oxygen cleans the oil off the cylnder walls?

 

Uh - hydrogen peroxide is one of the most reactive chemicals we know...

if you research it's use in internal combustion engines, you'll find the doses necessary to provide significant power density improvements are outweighed by the detrimental side effects.

 

I'm getting the impression that I'm putting it in as a liquid. I'm putting it in my cell instead of water. So I should have HHOO. If diesel needs more oxygen why not give it more oxygen. I was also going to set up a second cell and seperate the O and only put it in the intake.
Now I'm only useing the 3% stuff so it's not really going to make much difference probably.
There's always a chance it will explode though.
I've done a lot of research about H peroxide. Very powerfull stuff, make a dragser go 1/4 in 3.6? sec at 392mph must be lots of energy in there somewhere. Stronge enough peroxide will cause things to burst into flames.
The vapor isn't going to wash down the cylinder walls though right?

 

Well, I hope your cell is constructed of 300 series stainless steel or a suitable structural plastic...
No, I'm confident that the hydrogen peroxide wouldn't get a chance to "wash down the cylinder walls" - but I'd expect the H2O2 vapor (you aren't planning to inject liquid, right? ) to rapidly oxidize the oil on the cylinder walls, which would be the least of your problems - can you say PRE-ignition?

Chemically, the exothermic nature of H2O2 clamors for it's use to increase the power density of a hydrocarbon-fueled heat cycle, but the logistical impracticalities largely preclude applications outside of military/aerospace.
However, it could be quite beneficial for certain tasks, suc h as improving your 60' at the dragstrip... it'd make a heck of a good JATO bottle!

I think of H2O2 & nitroglycerine as "separated at birth"
Both are readily available in weak form for medicinal purposes, but stronger concentrations are liable to blow your "parts" off!

 

Yes vapor not liquid. Why would the O in the HHOO cause oil oxidation there is normally oxygen in there from the outside air. Am I going to be concentrating the O that much more in the cylinder? Yes I am useing stailess plates and a plastic container. Yes it's the 3% HHOO I don't think it's going to be a big difference from just water as far as corrosion to the cell or extra oxygen to the motor.
Will to much O in the cylinder be problematic with the combustion process?

 

I sense that you're not realizing just how reactive - and therefore dangerous, not to mention impractical - H2O2 is... I think it'd be worth your time to google it or something.