Tree DR

Look in my album.

Tree DR

I had to fill the grill tank anyway. Asked the guys what the cfm of propane was per gal. They pulled out the book and it said.
Cu. Ft. of Vapor (at 60deg F) Gal. 36.38.
Cubic feet of air to burn one Cubic foot of propane 23.86.
Ignition temp in air F 920-1120.
Maximum flame temp. in air, F 3590degrees.
BTU per CF at 60deg 2488.

I guess it's off to the welding shop or where ever to find some info on H of the same nature.

Tree DR

Found this chart. at www.hydrogenappliances.com/Hydrogendata.html scoll down the page to the chart. Someone explane it to me my brains in neutral this morning.

jon96ctd

okay, got mine built, i'll go into the details of size a little later but at 13V it's drawing around 50A with about a teaspoon to 1/2 gallon baking soda to water, straight tap water about 1A; way too much soda puts it around 100A. around 50A seems to be a pretty good output.
sorry to bring this up again but i don't quite understand what the PWM is all about. the things i've come up with from doing searches is that guys using these are using way less power, is this true?
right now my stainless plates are about 1/8" apart.

Tree DR

jon96ctd
Glad your up and running. Check out my picture in my photo album. I'm not sure what the pulse width modulater does as far as useing less power? I think you can change the power used maybe. The web site I mentioned above has the most information I've found on the net yet about what we are doing. If you take the time and check it all out you will be way ahead of me when I started.
I wish i had a way electronicly to change the timeing since H increases the burn speed in the cylinder my timeing. is to advanced with the H. Yes I know I can move the tone ring but about the 2nd time I crawled uder there in 2mi to change it I'd be tired of that. I did talk to TST they sounded like maybe they might be able to do something like that. I told them I'd need to retard the timeing as well as advance, and they were ?? retard the timeing well I guess we could do that.
Good luck Jon.
Tree DR

Tree DR

I think I hit the jackpot. It can be done for other vehicles and they will try it for me. Got the scan gauge hooked up yesterday. It doesn't show fuel pressure because the ecm doesn't I guess. Instant mpg yes. I am going to have to get it dialed in, yes you can adjust it to get correct mpg. The scan gauge has lots of nice info for the driver.

O.fO.shO

I've been following this thread for a while . I ran acroos this article and figured I'd post it for whatever its worth .


http://www.ncsu.edu/news/press_releases/05_09/188.htm

Tree DR

Very interesting. Don't know where I could get some?
Quantum mentioned carbon but I haven't heard back from him on that either.
I did take a drive with the scan gauge, 125mi 29 in town and the rest at 55mph on the cruise. Overhead said 25.6, scan gauge said 23.3 and actual was 20.67mpg. I had the hydrogen off the truck. Just adjusted total gallons used on the scan gauge to match actual, should be really close now on the average mpg.
Tree DR

Tree DR

Found why I keep getting a brown sludge build up in my electrolizer. The minerals in the water.
I picked up some steam distilled water and no more brown sludge. I used tap water and that made lots of sludge, so I tried distilled water still had sludge. No more with the steam distilled water.
Any news from anyone?

billg

I had the same thing happen. I posted a PDF file several pages (P. 7) back with some pictures. http://www.stickittoopec.com/BrownsGas.pdf
I need to update that file, several things have changed and I have doubled production since then (still not enough).
I have been following another thread at one of the other sites http://www.oupower.com/phpBB2/viewto...er=asc&start=0 .
They are making hydrogen with a chemical process. I’m still trying to make heads or tails of this. I don’t know how controllable it is. It’s no good if we can’t turn it on and off.
They have been awarded these patents:

http://l2.espacenet.com/espacenet/vi...e&LG=de&DB=EPD

http://l2.espacenet.com/espacenet/vi...e&LG=de&DB=EPD

http://l2.espacenet.com/espacenet/vi...e&LG=de&DB=EPD

billg

jon96ctd The PWM is a way to efficiently limit the amperes the electrolyzer draws from the alternator. The way you are going you will always draw 50A no matter what the driving conditions are. There may be times in bad traffic with the AC, lights, wipers, stereo , and recharging the battery, you might like to limit the current draw. This way all you will have to do is install an amp gauge and PWM then turn the dial to lighten the load. The other way with a couple of short trips you could end up with a dead battery or a fried alternator. The thing to watch for when buying the PWM is to be sure the circuit has a MOSFET with a high enough rating to carry the current and a big enough heat sink to carry off the heat. I have seen them on eBay and you can get them on the internet already assembled for a premium price.
With a quick search on the net I got this: http://www.electronickits.com/kit/co...tor/ck1400.htm
Here is a little more info on the circuit http://kitsrus.com/pdf/K67v4.pdf

jon96ctd

thank you, that clears it up quite a bit. I moved production of mine from the plastic containter we were using, which wasn't working well for the electrical connections due to heat, to a stainless steel box. That and when we were playing with the plastic one I accidentally put an open flame right on the hose that went into the top of the container, barked a good bit and deformed the plastic lid a little
The way we put the plates together was slightly different than the bolt method but they are still CLOSE, I need to have my brother email the pics of ours to me and I'll post them.

We got the brown cloud from our tap water, too. Not a big deal but it' probably be a pain to clean out after a while.

I've taken a break on it again this week, trying to finish up an engine rebuild for a 95 caprice and work on my truck- shrunk manifold getting ATS'd and I got metal coil spacers to level it with.

Tree DR

I'm still doing modifications to mine. I have lots of production.
How many of you have had or have a electrolizer on you vehicle right now?
I'm trying to get mine set up so I can change injection timing and change production levels on the go.

edwinsmith

I haven't read more than the article and the first page of posts so forgive me if this has already been answered.

In order to separate the hydrogen and oxygen in water with electrolysis it requires energy in the form of electricity. Presumably this energy comes from the battery and ultimately the alternator. This makes the alternator turn harder due to increased load. There ain't no free lunch.

When the electricity flows through the wires and the electrolyte (water-baking soda) it produces a little waste heat so the energy of the burning hydrogen/oxygen produces less energy than was input to the electrolyzer. The free lunch already has negative returns.

The burning hydrogen/oxygen in the cylinders may produce unwanted effects and maybe damage something. Pure speculation on my part but hydrogen/oxygen is very explosive and dangerous.

There may be some effect from increasing the efficiency of the diesel fuel burn but the author doesn't state this. He simply states that hydrogen produces extra energy when burned. True but the system loses more energy than is produced so your mileage will go DOWN not up.

The amount of hydrogen produced is so miniscule and the energy used by the electrolyzer is so low you may not notice any decrease in mileage but you won't see any increase either.

Physics tells us that energy cannot either be created or destroyed. It merely changes form. When it changes form the conversion always produces losses from waste heat and friction.

TANSTAAFL (There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.)

Edwin

jon96ctd

the explosive issue has been considered and dealt with as not applicable due to the realatively low dilution.

the mileage/performance gain isn't primarily from the heat energy of the hydrogen burning, otherwise this would be a "perpetual motion" type of experiment. The hotter quicker burn of the hydrogen ignites the diesel faster and allows a more complete burn of the fuel, that's where the mileage and power increase is from.
I don't see a 20-40 amp draw as being detrimental to mileage/power, I wouldn't want it running while the grid heaters were cycling but I don't see any problem other than alternator brushes wearing a little sooner.