Ladder Bars
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Joined: Oct 2005
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From: Dallas area
I should have some pics posted of the installed bars and mounts by the end of the week. The rear brackets bolt onto the shock mounts - ground clearance is not changed; front brackets bolt onto the frame lateral from the front driveshaft - tranny yoke. Brackets are basically .375" thick, rears are 5" and the fronts about 10" long. Everything was fabricated from steel, since stainless would be prohibitively expensive, but I did stainless steel powder paint them.
All the materials cost about $150 for everything, plus WAY to much time in the shop (ever made your own butted pipe?
) The one day I had to swing the 24# sledge for hours... 
I adjusted them longer today just to the point of a little preload, so I'm going to see how it comes out of the hole tomorrow, and watch how it pulls the GN the day after that. I've never really had wheelhop on pavement before - it just spins, probably 'cause the truck is pushing 10K#.
So far, it seems as though the ride has more "road feel" if that makes sense.
All the materials cost about $150 for everything, plus WAY to much time in the shop (ever made your own butted pipe?
) The one day I had to swing the 24# sledge for hours... I adjusted them longer today just to the point of a little preload, so I'm going to see how it comes out of the hole tomorrow, and watch how it pulls the GN the day after that. I've never really had wheelhop on pavement before - it just spins, probably 'cause the truck is pushing 10K#.
So far, it seems as though the ride has more "road feel" if that makes sense.
You have to use a pipe wrench to turn that pass. bar? or did you get your son and a couple of buds to help??
Thread Starter
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Joined: Nov 2005
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From: Pattonville, Texas
Yeah - that's why I have those handy 2" long necks on the bar ends - just right for pipe wrench jaws 
The driving must have loosened them up; driver's is 10 ft-lbs and passenger side is 40 ft-lbs prevailing torque. Now I need to try and bend them...
The driving must have loosened them up; driver's is 10 ft-lbs and passenger side is 40 ft-lbs prevailing torque. Now I need to try and bend them...
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From: TEXAS
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Please explain.... I've been around A TON of 4x4's of all sizes. I live next to Disney OK. EVERY SINGLE one I have seen that has a ladder bar fixed mounted on the frame and axle will have spring issues. Think about it. The bars DO NOT move from front to back. If the axle compresses or droops what happens... You tell me.
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Joined: Jan 2002
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From: Southern, Indiana
There is nothing wrong with XLR8R's bars.
In fact they look good and heavy. Nice job.
But I will admit they are a bit heavy for a normal street bar. Looks like they belong on a pulling truck.
In fact they look good and heavy. Nice job.
But I will admit they are a bit heavy for a normal street bar. Looks like they belong on a pulling truck.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,785
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From: Pattonville, Texas
That's why the length works so well; the short bars guide the rear axle in a much tighter arc, which can lead to suspension bind - which is why I prefer a proper 4-link over a Hotchkiss on a car... not enough room for long and heavy ladder bars, and slappers are just a band-aid IMO.
If I was rock-crawling or something, I'd probably take off the ladder bars, sway bars, truck boxes, etc.
Several members have posted reports of full articulation, even without heim ends, shackle mounts or lengthy bars.
Let's suppose I manage to get another 3K# on the rear suspension (
) - truck is pushing 10K# as it is 
... that would lower the frame over the rear axle 1.625" (if I didn't adjust the pressure in the airbags), so the front heim joint would drop about 1.125"; with the bars' 91" radius, the pinion angle would change a degree at most - which of course helps the U-joints not to shudder on take-off. The axle would be forced backwards approximately .010" of an inch - yes ten thousandths. 
Take an extreme example: 42" bars, 6" frame drop at front heim ( which means the rear suspension compression is quite a bit more); the axle would be forced back by 7/16", which will preload the leaf springs into a slight amount of wrap (not sure if it'd be measurable), since the rear heims are mounted underneath the axle tubes.
It's important to get the bars' dimensions and mounting points right so you have the proper geometry for the suspension.
As is common knowledge - size DOES matter!
If I was rock-crawling or something, I'd probably take off the ladder bars, sway bars, truck boxes, etc.
Several members have posted reports of full articulation, even without heim ends, shackle mounts or lengthy bars.
Let's suppose I manage to get another 3K# on the rear suspension (
) - truck is pushing 10K# as it is ... that would lower the frame over the rear axle 1.625" (if I didn't adjust the pressure in the airbags), so the front heim joint would drop about 1.125"; with the bars' 91" radius, the pinion angle would change a degree at most - which of course helps the U-joints not to shudder on take-off. The axle would be forced backwards approximately .010" of an inch - yes ten thousandths. Take an extreme example: 42" bars, 6" frame drop at front heim ( which means the rear suspension compression is quite a bit more); the axle would be forced back by 7/16", which will preload the leaf springs into a slight amount of wrap (not sure if it'd be measurable), since the rear heims are mounted underneath the axle tubes.
It's important to get the bars' dimensions and mounting points right so you have the proper geometry for the suspension.
As is common knowledge - size DOES matter!
Thread Starter
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,785
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From: Pattonville, Texas
You guessed it... my trucks are way too heavy to drag, so I figured I might as well pull - looking forward to trying to bend these bars as soon as I can afford to break parts!
